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Caption transcript for Voices From Israel: “Israel and ‘Palestine’” (2/10)

• 00:06 THIS PLACE IS PART OF YOUR HERITAGE.
• 00:09 THIS PLACE IS PART OF YOUR DREAM.
• 00:11 PEOPLE OF THE BIBLE ARE IN CHARGE OF THE LAND OF THE BIBLE.
• 00:13 I FEEL VERY STRONGLY THAT THERE HAVE BEEN SO MANY TIMES IN HISTORY
• 00:16 WHEN CHRISTIANS HAVE LOOKED THE OTHER WAY WHEN JEWISH PEOPLE WERE BEING ATTACKED.
• 00:19 WE WILL ULTIMATELY SEE THE WORLD CHANGE.
• 00:23 GOD'S PURPOSES FOR ISRAEL JUST MARCH ON, DON'T THEY?
• 00:32 SHALOM, HELLO AGAIN.
• 00:34 WELCOME BACK TO OUR "VOICES FROM ISRAEL" SERIES.
• 00:37 WE HEAR ALL SORTS OF VOICES IN THIS SERIES, ALL TAPED AND FILMED ON LOCATION IN ISRAEL.
• 00:44 LATER ON IN THIS PROGRAM I'M GOING TO INTERVIEW HANAN ASHRAWI.
• 00:48 THIS INTERVIEW CAUSED SOME RESPONSE WHEN WE RAN IT ON OUR PROGRAM.
• 00:53 TONY, THE GROUP GOES TO SOME VERY INTERESTING PLACES ON THIS ONE.
• 00:57 ACTUALLY, VERY INTERESTING PLACES, ZOLA.
• 00:59 THIS IS A BANQUET, IN FACT, IN YOUR HONOR FOR YOUR 75TH TRIP TO ISRAEL.
• 01:05 IT WAS SUCH A DELIGHTFUL EVENING WITH ALL KINDS OF DIGNITARIES AND SPECIAL GUESTS.
• 01:09 IT WAS REALLY-- I WAS A LITTLE SURPRISED BY IT.
• 01:12 THE MAYOR OF JERUSALEM CAME OUT FOR WHICH I WAS VERY HONORED, AND TOURISM OFFICIALS.
• 01:18 THEY MADE QUITE A FUSS OVER IT.
• 01:21 WELL, I GUESS 75 TRIPS, JUST THE AIRPLANE RIDES; I'M ABOUT 7 YEARS OLDER THAN I SHOULD BE.
• 01:27 [LAUGHS]
• 01:29 WE'LL GO NOW TO THAT BANQUET AND LET YOU ENJOY THE PARTY.
• 01:33 ON THIS EVENING A BANQUET IS BEING PREPARED FEATURING
• 01:37 THE FRESH, COLORFUL FLAVORS OF THE HOLY LAND.
• 01:40 OUR GROUP OF CHRISTIAN PILGRIMS HAS ASSEMBLED TO ENJOY THIS SCRUMPTIOUS FEAST
• 01:44 AND HEAR FROM THE WIDE VARIETY OF GUEST SPEAKERS.
• 01:47 MANY FACES ARE FAMILIAR. SOME ARE NOT.
• 01:50 YET EVERY SPEAKER VOICES A HEART-FELT APPRECIATION
• 01:52 FOR THOSE WHO HAVE COME AND SHOWN TANGIBLE SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL.
• 01:57 TONIGHT, SEEING YOU IN THESE DAYS IN ISRAEL
• 02:01 MAKES ME SPEECHLESS TO BE QUITE FRANK WITH YOU.
• 02:04 YOU ARE HERE, NOT IN SPITE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING,
• 02:07 YOU ARE HERE BECAUSE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING IN ISRAEL.
• 02:10 THAT SHOWS THAT YOU ARE THE GREATEST SUPPORTERS.
• 02:13 AND AS I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY, IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO SUPPORT ISRAEL
• 02:17 THE BEST WAY IS TO COME AND VISIT US.
• 02:21 EVERY ELEVEN TOURISTS IS A SALARY FOR ONE EMPLOYEE IN ISRAEL.
• 02:26 AS I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY, YOU CAN PREACH; YOU CAN TEACH; YOU CAN STUDY THE BIBLE.
• 02:34 IN ISRAEL YOU SEE THE BIBLE COME ALIVE
• 02:37 AND I DON'T HAVE TO TELL YOU WHAT IT DOES TO EACH OF YOU HERE.
• 02:40 EVERY JEW, EVERY CHRISTIAN GOES BACK A DIFFERENT PERSON.
• 02:44 I'M VERY GRATEFUL THAT YOU'RE HERE, AS WELL.
• 02:47 I CAN RELATE SO EASILY TO PEOPLE WHO THINK THE WAY I THINK.
• 02:52 WHAT AM I TALKING ABOUT?
• 02:54 I'M TALKING ABOUT THE VERY SIMPLE, SIMPLE CONCEPT THAT THERE IS A GOD.
• 03:00 THERE'S ONLY ONE GOD.HE'S THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE AND OF ALL PEOPLE.
• 03:05 THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE. THAT'S WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT.
• 03:08 SO I'M SO THANKFUL TO SEE YOU HERE AS TRUE BROTHERS AND SISTERS OF MINE
• 03:13 IN THE SPIRIT WITH THAT MARVELOUS GIFT OF A NEW HEART AND NEW SPIRIT.
• 03:18 IT IS SO GREAT TO SEE THE ALMIGHTY GOD INDEED FULFILLING HIS PROMISES TO ABRAHAM
• 03:25 AND MAKING ISRAEL A BLESSING TO ALL THE FAMILIES OF THE EARTH
• 03:29 AND CALLING YOU TO BE PARTAKERS OF THE PROMISES GIVEN TO ISRAEL
• 03:34 AND BE ONE IN THE FAMILY OF THE REDEEMED.
• 03:38 IT'S INCREDIBLE TO SEE ALL OF YOU HERE.
• 03:41 ONE MEASURES ONE'S FRIENDS WHEN ONE'S IN TROUBLE, WHEN YOU'RE DOWN.
• 03:46 EVERYBODY WANTS TO JOIN A PARTY, BUT WHEN YOU'RE DOWN
• 03:49 THAT'S WHEN YOU WANT TO SEE, OKAY, WHO'S AROUND ME?
• 03:51 WHO HAS COME IN MY TIME OF NEED? YOU GUYS HAVE DONE THAT.
• 03:54 AGAIN,IN HEBREW WE WOULD SAY [SPEAKING HEBREW];
• 03:57 ALL THE POWER TO YOU FOR MAKING THIS STATEMENT, FOR BEING HERE WITH US.
• 04:01 THANKS FOR BEING HERE.
• 04:03 [APPLAUSE]
• 04:05 THE FEATURED SPEAKER OF THE EVENING WAS THE MAYOR OF JERUSALEM, EHUD OLMERT.
• 04:10 HE HAS SINCE RESIGNED AS MAYOR TO SERVE IN THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT,
• 04:13 BUT IN THIS SPEECH, MAYOR OLMERT TOLD US ABOUT HIS VISIT TO WASHINGTON D.C.IN OCTOBER, 2002.
• 04:21 YOU KNOW, I FELT A LITTLE BIT UNEASY WHEN I WAS ASKED IN WASHINGTON
• 04:26 WHAT DO I THINK OF THE REACTION TO THE THREAT OF THE SNIPER SHOOTER,
• 04:31 BECAUSE IT COST A TERRIBLE PRICE FOR THE PEOPLE THERE.
• 04:37 I WAS UTTERLY SURPRISED WHEN I FOUND OUT THEY CLOSED ALL THE SCHOOLS IN THE WASHINGTON AREA.
• 04:43 IT DRAMATICALLY AFFECTED THE LIVES OF MANY PEOPLE
• 04:50 WHO DIDN'T DARE LEAVE THEIR HOMES IN THE AREA.
• 04:55 THEY ASKED ME, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT IT? WHAT COULD I SAY?
• 04:59 WE HAD IN GILO, FOR INSTANCE, 180 SHOOTING ATTACKS, 180 DAYS OF SHOOTING.
• 05:07 EACH TIME THERE WERE THOUSANDS OF BULLETS THAT PENETRATED INTO LIVING ROOMS AND BEDROOMS
• 05:17 AND BATHROOMS AND KITCHENS WHERE PEOPLE WERE SITTING AND EATING OR WATCHING TELEVISION
• 05:21 OR JUST PREPARING THE HOMEWORK FOR TOMORROW'S SCHOOL.
• 05:25 SUDDENLY THERE WERE BULLETS THAT PENETRATED AND CROSSED THROUGH.
• 05:31 WE NEVER, EVER EVEN THOUGHT OF CLOSING ONE SCHOOL OR ONE CLASSROOM.
• 05:38 WE KEPT OUR FAITH IN GOD AND WE SAID WE'LL KEEP GOING AND MOVE FORWARD.
• 05:47 I MUST SAY I DON'T CRITICIZE THEM IN WASHINGTON.
• 05:50 THERE'S A BIG FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE.
• 05:52 IN WASHINGTON THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO THINK THAT ONCE THIS LUNATIC OR THIS TERRORIST IS FOUND
• 06:01 AND HE IS ARRESTED THEY CAN RETURN TO A NORMAL PACE OF LIFE
• 06:05 AND EVERYTHING WILL RETURN INTO ITS ROUTINE.
• 06:09 IF WE HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL EVERY- THING WILL RETURN TO ROUTINE HERE, IT CAN LAST FOR YEARS.
• 06:17 SO WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN THE MEANTIME?
• 06:19 SO WE CAN'T AFFORD TO STOP OUR LIVES TO CLOSE SCHOOLS,
• 06:23 NOT TO GO TO WORK, NOT TO GO OUT IN THE STREET.
• 06:26 WE HAVE TO KEEP GOING.
• 06:29 IT IS AMAZING TO SEE THE STRENTH IN THE SPIRIT OF THE PEOPLE HERE.
• 06:36 NOT THAT IT WASN'T HARD.
• 06:38 IT WAS TERRIBLY HARD AND IT MAY STILL WILL BE VERY HARD FOR MANY OF US,
• 06:43 BUT, THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO FIGHT TERROR.
• 06:49 THIS IS NOT TO SURRENDER TO THEIR ATTEMPTS TO CREATE FEAR IN THE HEARTS OF PEOPLE,
• 06:57 BUT TO MOVE FORWARD. WE ARE MOVING FORWARD.
• 07:03 THE PARTNERSHIP WE HAVE WITH YOUR COMMUNITY IS OF GREAT SIGNIFICANCE TO US.
• 07:10 IT IS VERY SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE IT PROVES AGAIN THAT WHAT WE KNOW,
• 07:18 BUT WE NEED TO SEE IT IN OUR OWN EYES AND TO BE REASSURED OF THE TIMES.
• 07:23 YOU GIVE US THE REASSURANCE THAT THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE ACROSS THE WORLD WHO BELIEVE IN GOD,
• 07:29 WHO HAVE THE STRENGTH IN THEIR HEART TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WE ARE FIGHTING FOR,
• 07:40 WHAT WE ARE FIGHTING AGAINST AND WHY IS IT SO IMPORTANT THAT WE WILL ADHERE TO OUR POSITIONS
• 07:51 AND THAT WE WILL KEEP THIS LAND IN THE HANDS TO WHICH IT BELONGS
• 07:57 AND THIS CITY IN THE HANDS OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE DESTINED TO BE THE SOVEREIGNS IN THIS CITY.
• 08:07 IT IS OUR HISTORICAL RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE
• 08:14 THAT THIS CITY IS KEPT UNITED AND UNDIVIDED AND HOSPITABLE AND FRIENDLY AND OPEN
• 08:23 TO EVERY BELIEVER THAT WANTS TO COME HERE AND TO PRAY TO GOD IN THIS CITY.
• 08:32 THERE IS ONE THING THAT WE WANT TO SEE MORE.
• 08:35 WE WANT TO SEE MORE OF YOU.
• 08:38 WE WANT THAT SO MANY OF YOUR PEOPLE WILL COME HERE AND WILL FEEL THAT THEY CAN SHARE WITH US
• 08:46 AND BE PART OF THIS PLACE AND ENJOY THE BEAUTY OF JERUSALEM
• 08:52 AND BE INSPIRED BY THE SPIRIT OF THIS GREAT CITY.
• 09:00 AT THE CONCLUSION OF HIS SPEECH, MAYOR OLMERT GAVE ZOLA THE OFFICIAL PEN OF THE CITY OF JERUSALEM.
• 09:06 [APPLAUSE]
• 09:13 THE MAYOR BESTOWED THIS HONOR IN RECOGNITION AND APPRECIATION OF ZOLA'S 75TH TRIP TO ISRAEL.
• 09:19 WELL, TONY, THAT WAS A GREAT EVENING.
• 09:22 I APPRECIATE YOUR PART IN IT. I ASSUME YOU HELPED SET IT UP.
• 09:25 IT WAS A DELIGHTFUL EVENING. I'M GLAD I COULD BE THERE.
• 09:28 SO MANY FRIENDS FROM SO MANY TIMES AND PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE LAND.
• 09:34 THERE WERE PEOPLE THERE THAT EVENING
• 09:36 THAT OTHERWISE WOULD HAVE NOTHING TO SAY TO EACH OTHER LIKE IN AMERICA.
• 09:40 YOU HAVE DIFFERENT FACTIONS AND YOU HAVE THE ABSOLUTE,
• 09:42 ULTRA ORTHODOX THERE, LIBERAL PEOPLE THERE, GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS,
• 09:46 CITIZENS THAT DON'T TRUST THE GOVERNMENT.
• 09:49 IT'S A DEMOCRACY SO THERE'S ALL KINDS OF OPINIONS.
• 09:51 I WAS SO PLEASED TO SEE THAT ROOM FULL OF PEOPLE.
• 09:54 IT WAS A GOOD EVENING, ZOLA.
• 09:55 IT WAS FUN. THANK YOU. THANKS FOR YOUR PART IN IT.
• 09:58 OKAY, IN THIS TRIP, TOO, WE WENT THROUGH A CHECKPOINT TO RAMALLAH,
• 10:02 ACROSS THE LINE INTO WHAT'S CALLED THE PALESTINIAN CAPITAL,
• 10:08 WHERE THE ARABS OF THE WEST BANK AND ARAFAT AND HIS PEOPLE HAVE THEIR HEADQUARTERS.
• 10:14 A VERY PROFESSIONAL AND COURTEOUS PALESTINIAN TV CREW
• 10:18 TOOK US IN THERE AND WE BROUGHT A COUPLE OF OUR OWN MEN.
• 10:23 I INTERVIEWED THIS LADY WHO IS A SPOKESPERSON
• 10:27 AND HAS BEEN A MEMBER OF THE PALESTINIAN NATIONAL CABINET.
• 10:34 I DIDN'T ARGUE WITH HER.
• 10:38 THERE WERE SOME THINGS THAT WERE ARGUABLE, BUT I WAS INTERESTED IN HER VIEWS.
• 10:42 SHE GAVE HER VIEWS.
• 10:45 THEN, WE PRESENTED THOSE VIEWS TO EXPERT ARAB CHRISTIANS THAT WE KNOW IN THIS COUNTRY
• 10:51 THAT ARE FRIENDS OF OUR MINISTRY AND THEY DISCUSSED HER VIEWS.
• 10:54 SO IT WAS QUITE A THOUGHT PROVOKING AFTERNOON.
• 10:58 WE'LL GO THERE NOW, TO RAMALLAH.
• 11:01 TALKING TO PALESTINIAN PEOPLE, THEY ARE SINCERELY CONVINCED THIS IS THEIR LAND.
• 11:07 THEY HAVE BEEN HERE FROM TIME IMMEMORIAL.
• 11:10 WHAT IS THE REAL--?
• 11:12 YOU'RE A PROFESSOR, RIGHT?
• 11:14 YOU TAUGHT AT UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA, AM I RIGHT?
• 11:16 STUDIED AND TAUGHT THERE.
• 11:18 WHAT IS THE REAL HISTORY OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE IN THIS LAND?
• 11:22 WELL, WE GO BACK CENTURIES. ACTUALLY IF YOU WANT, WE GO BACK TO THE CANAANITES.
• 11:28 THE CANAANITES? >>YES.
• 11:30 SO THE PALESTINIANS ARE THE LONGEST STANDING, ONGOING,
• 11:34 HISTORICAL HUMAN TRADITION IN PALESTINE.
• 11:37 OF COURSE WE ARE ALSO A MIX OF SO MANY TRIBES THAT CAME INTO PALESTINE, BUT THOSE OF US--
• 11:44 I MEAN, MY FAMILY HAS BEEN HERE FOR CENTURIES.
• 11:47 MOST PEOPLE TRACE THEIR FAMILIES CENTURIES AND THOUSANDS OF YEARS.
• 11:51 IT'S AMAZING FOR PEOPLE TO TELL US YOU'RE AN ACCIDENT OF HISTORY OR THIS LAND THAT'S YOUR LAND--
• 11:57 WE DEFINE OUR BEING, OUR CULTURE, OUR HISTORY,
• 12:00 OUR SENSE OF VALUE FROM BEING A PEOPLE OF THE LAND AND THEN WE ARE TOLD,
• 12:04 NO, THIS LAND HAS TO BE GIVEN AWAY IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE BIBLE OR SOMETHING.
• 12:09 IF YOU REORGANIZE THE WORLD IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE BIBLE, YOU'D BE IN SERIOUS TROUBLE.
• 12:13 THERE ARE 3 FUNDAMENTAL POINTS THAT I THINK ARE NECESSARY TO MAKE HERE HISTORICALLY.
• 12:18 NUMBER ONE IS THE LUDICROUS STATEMENT ABOUT A PALESTINIAN NATION.
• 12:22 THERE HAS NEVER, IN THE HISTORY OF CIVILIZATION BEEN A PALESTINIAN NATION, EVER.
• 12:27 THE HUMAN CRY FOR A PALESTINIAN STATE DID NOT EVEN BEGIN UNTIL 1948
• 12:32 WHEN ISRAEL BECAME A NATION ITSELF.
• 12:34 ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I MAKE A STATEMENT WHEN I DO PUBLIC DEBATES IS, I SAY,
• 12:38 I BELIEVE THE PALESTINIANS SHOULD HAVE AS MUCH LAND AS THEY HAVE EVER HAD HISTORICALLY,
• 12:43 WHICH, OF COURSE IS NONE.
• 12:45 SHE BELIEVES THAT SHE IS A CHRISTIAN AND AS A PROFESSED CHRISTIAN
• 12:48 SHE SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT GOD MADE A COVENANT WITH ISRAEL. THIS IS FUNDAMENTALLY IMPORTANT.
• 12:55 THE LAND WAS GIVEN BY GOD TO THE JEWS.
• 12:59 AS A PALESTINIAN CHRISTIAN SHE MUST KNOW HER OLD TESTAMENT ON THIS.
• 13:03 THE FINAL THING I WANT TO ASK IS, WHY IN THE MIDST OF ALL OF THIS CRY FOR PEACE,
• 13:10 WHY HAS NOT ONE ARAB NATION OFFERED A PARCEL OF THEIR LAND TO GIVE TO THE PALESTINIANS?
• 13:17 OF COURSE THE ANSWER IS THIS IS NOT AS MUCH ABOUT GIVING THE PALESTINIANS A NATION
• 13:21 AS MUCH AS IT IS FOR TAKING AWAY A NATION FROM ISRAEL.
• 13:26 USUALLY HANAN ASHRAWI GETS HIGH MARKS FOR SINCERITY.
• 13:31 UNLIKE MANY OF THE LEADERS IN THE PALESTINE AUTHORITY SHE REALLY, I BELIEVE,
• 13:37 BELIEVES WHAT SHE SAYS.
• 13:39 FOR YASSAR ARAFAT THAT'S NOT THE CASE.
• 13:41 YASSAR ARAFAT IS A LIAR FROM THE GET GO.
• 13:44 HANAN ASHRAWI, I BELIEVE, IS SOMEBODY WHO BELIEVES PRINCIPALLY
• 13:48 IN FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.
• 13:51 I GIVE HER HIGH MARKS FOR SINCERITY.
• 13:53 BUT WHEN SHE TALKS ABOUT THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE RETRACING THEIR HISTORY TO THE CANAANITES, SHE LOSES ME.
• 14:01 WHEN SHE TALKS ABOUT THE FACT THAT PALESTINIANS HAVE THE LONGEST STANDING TRADITION
• 14:07 OF HUMANITY IN THAT REGION OF THE WORLD, AGAIN, SHE LOSES ME.
• 14:13 ALL WE NEED TO DO, WE DON'T NEED TO GO BACK THOUSANDS OF YEARS
• 14:16 TO SEE WHO'S BEEN LIVING IN THAT PART OF THE WORLD.
• 14:19 WE CAN GO BACK TO THE TURN OF THE 20TH CENTURY AND LOOK AT WHAT THE POPULATION LEVELS WERE.
• 14:26 AT THAT TIME, WHEN THE AREA WE CALL PALESTINE WAS RULED BY THE ISLAMIC OTTOMAN EMPIRE
• 14:34 THE MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION IN JERUSALEM,
• 14:37 THE OVERWHELMING POPULATION IN JERUSALEM WAS JEWISH.
• 14:42 THE SECOND HIGHEST POPULATION LEVEL WAS AMONG CHRISTIAN ARABS.
• 14:47 AND MUSLIMS, WHO NOW TELL US THAT JERUSALEM IS THE THIRD HOLIEST SITE IN ALL OF ISLAM
• 14:54 ACTUALLY WERE A VERY SMALL MINORITY OF ABOUT 10 PERCENT OF THE POPULATION.
• 14:59 SO, IT'S VERY HARD FOR ME TO LOOK AT WHAT HANAN ASHRAWI SAYS ABOUT THIS LONG STANDING TRADITION IN THE REGION.
• 15:08 THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS THE ARAB POPULATION HAS BEEN ON THE INCREASE
• 15:13 EVER SINCE THE TURN OF THE 20TH CENTURY AND THEY CAME FOR 2 PRINCIPLE REASONS.
• 15:19 THEY CAME BECAUSE OF THE ECONOMIC ACTIVITY STIRRED BY THE JEWISH IMMIGRATION
• 15:24 INTO THE REGION AND THEY CAME, INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH,
• 15:27 BECAUSE OF THE FREEDOM THAT JEWS BROUGHT WITH THEM.
• 15:31 WHAT WOULD HAPPEN, THIS IS ALMOST A FANTASY,
• 15:35 BUT LET'S SAY A 2 NATION SOLUTION IS FORMED, SOMETHING LIKE IT.
• 15:39 PALESTINIAN HAVE A NATION, CONTROL, AND AS A MATTER OF FACT
• 15:43 SINCE THEY ARE LARGELY MUSLIM THEY BEGIN TO ACT LIKE A MUSLIM GOVERNMENT.
• 15:48 THEY TELL YOU TO COVER YOUR HAIR, THIS SORT OF THING.
• 15:51 HISTORICALLY, PALESTINE HAS ALWAYS BEEN ONE OF THE MOST TOLERANT, OPEN,
• 15:55 LIBERAL AND PLURALISTIC SOCIETIES IN THE ARAB WORLD AND IN THE REGION.
• 16:00 HANAN ASHRAWI SAYS THAT PALESTINE HAS ALWAYS BEEN ONE OF THE MOST OPEN,
• 16:05 LIBERAL, PLURALISTIC AND TOLERANT SOCIETIES IN THE REGION.
• 16:09 WELL, I DON'T KNOW WHAT TIMEFRAME HANAN ASHRAWI IS TALKING ABOUT.
• 16:13 FIRST OF ALL, THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A PALESTINIAN STATE.
• 16:16 THERE'S NEVER BEEN A SOCIETY, A SELF-GOVERNING ENTITY
• 16:20 KNOWN AS PALESTINE IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.
• 16:23 SO YOU FIRST OF ALL HAVE TO ASK YOURSELF WHAT PALESTINE IS HANAN ASHRAWI TALKING ABOUT WHEN SHE DEFINES IT THAT WAY.
• 16:30 BUT IF YOU WANT TO USE LIBERAL, PLURALISTIC, TOLERANT AND OPEN SOCIETIES
• 16:35 AS THE STANDARD FOR THE MIDDLE EAST, THERE IS ONLY ONE AND IT'S THE STATE OF ISRAEL.
• 16:41 IT IS THE ONLY DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY IN THE REGION OUT OF,
• 16:45 THERE ARE 23 ARAB AND MUSLIM STATES ALL VARYING FORMS OF TOTALITARIAN POLICE STATES
• 16:52 AND ISRAEL IS THE ONLY LITTLE, TINY BASTION OF DEMOCRACY AND FREEDOM IN THE REGION.
• 16:58 IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE IN LIGHT OF-- WELL, PERHAPS HE'S OVERLY RADICAL,
• 17:03 BUT A HAMAS LEADER SAID THIS RESISTANCE, THIS MORE THAN RESISTANCE,
• 17:08 THE MILITANCY WILL CONTINUE UNTIL ALL OF THE JEWS LEAVE THE LAND OF PALESTINE.
• 17:12 IT'S NOT A 2 STATE SOLUTION.
• 17:14 THAT'S NOT SOMETHING-- NO, THE MAJORITY OF THE PALESTINIANS ACCEPT THE 2 STATE SOLUTION.
• 17:18 WE DO NOT JUDGE A NATION IN ACCORDANCE WITH A MINORITY.
• 17:21 THAT'S WHY DEMOCRATICALLY THE MAJORITY WILL HAVE AN AGENDA.
• 17:25 OF COURSE IT WILL DIFFUSE. IT WILL DISARM THE MILITANTS.
• 17:29 ONCE YOU SEE HOPE AND ONCE YOU SEE JUSTICE.
• 17:32 BUT SO LONG AS PEOPLE ARE MOTIVATED BY PAIN, BY REVENGE, BY A SENSE OF VICTIMIZATION,
• 17:37 THEN OF COURSE THEIR AGENDA WOULD BECOME MORE EXTREME,
• 17:42 PARTICULARLY IF THEY ARE VICTIMIZED BY ANOTHER EXTREME AGENDA.
• 17:45 SO REMOVE THE EXTREMISM FROM BOTH SIDES
• 17:48 AND YOU WILL HAVE A MORE DEMOCRATIC AND TOLERANT SOCIETY.
• 17:52 HANAN ASHRAWI SUGGESTS THAT THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE SUPPORT A 2 STATE SOLUTION.
• 18:00 IN OTHER WORDS, THE IDEA OF A SEPARATE PALESTINIAN STATE,
• 18:03 A SEPARATE ISRAELI STATE LIVING SIDE BY SIDE IN PEACE AND HARMONY.
• 18:07 I HAVE CAREFULLY LOOKED AT EVERY PUBLIC OPINION SURVEY DONE OF ARABS IN THAT PART OF THE WORLD
• 18:14 AND I SEE NO EVIDENCE TO BACK THAT UP.
• 18:17 I WISH IT WERE SO. I WISH IT WERE SO.
• 18:19 LET ME PRESENT YOU WITH A HYPOTHESIS.
• 18:22 LET'S SAY THAT A GROUP IN IDAHO OR IOWA OR SOME SMALL STATE SETS UP A COMPOUND,
• 18:28 FENCES IT IN AND CLAIMS IT TO BE THE NATION OF THIS COMPOUND.
• 18:34 TO PROVE THEIR POINT, THEY STOP PAYING TAXES.
• 18:38 THEY SET UP THEIR OWN BANKS. THEY SET UP THEIR OWN SYSTEMS.
• 18:40 TO FURTHER PROVE THEIR POINT, WHEN THE POLICE IN THAT CITY OR NEARBY THAT COMPOUND COME BY, THEY SHOOT THEM.
• 18:47 THEY BEGIN TO GO INTO THE NEIGHBORING CITIES AND THEY BOMB PEOPLE.
• 18:52 SOME OF THEM EVEN STRAP BOMBS TO THEMSELVES, WALK INTO THE STORES AND INTO THE RESTAURANTS
• 18:57 AND STRAP BOMBS TO THEMSELVES AND THEY MAKE THE POINT AND THEY SAY,
• 19:00 WE WILL NOT STOP THIS UNTIL YOU RECOGNIZE OUR COMPOUND AS A SEPARATE, SOVEREIGN NATION.
• 19:07 WHAT WOULD WE DO AS AMERICANS? WHAT WOULD OUR COUNTRY DO?
• 19:11 BUT IN FACT THAT IS WHAT WE ARE ASKING ISRAEL TO DO.
• 19:15 WE ARE ASKING TERRORISTS TO SET UP YOUR OWN COUNTRY.
• 19:19 WE ARE ALLOWING THEM TO BOMB ISRAEL, TO ABSOLUTELY OBLITERATE INNOCENT CIVILIANS
• 19:26 AND WE ASK THEM TO THINK THAT THESE ARE ACTS OF WAR, NOT TERRORISM.
• 19:30 THEN WE ARE ASKING ISRAEL TO RECOGNIZE THEM AS A STATE.
• 19:34 IN OTHER WORDS, TO BENEFIT TERRORISM.
• 19:36 WHY WOULD WE NOT DO THAT IN AMERICA?
• 19:39 WELL, OBVIOUSLY 2 REASONS COME TO MIND.
• 19:41 NUMBER 1, THAT'S NOT THE WAY A SOVEREIGN NATION OPERATES.
• 19:44 SECONDLY, IT REWARDS TERRORISM.
• 19:48 WOULD WE ALWAYS SUSPECT THAT THEY MAY DO MORE TO GET MORE LAND? OF COURSE.
• 19:53 AND SO SHOULD ISRAEL.
• 19:55 THIS IS A TIME FOR CHRISTIANS, EVANGELICALS, FOR JEWS TO UNITE TOGETHER AND BAND TOGETHER.
• 19:59 WE CANNOT REWARD TERRORISM.
• 20:01 WE CAN'T REWARD ACTS OF TERRORISM ANY MORE ON OUR LAND AS WE WOULD ASK ISRAEL TO DO ON ITS.
• 20:10 FOR A BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE ON WHAT IS HAPPENING IN ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE EAST,
• 20:14 ASK FOR ZOLA'S FREE MONTHLY NEWSLETTER, THE LEVITT LETTER.
• 20:22 ZOLA'S NEW KINGDOM CATALOG DESCRIBES HIS BOOKS, TEACHING TAPES AND CORRESPONDENCE COURSE.
• 20:29 FOR ZOLA'S FREE NEWSLETTER AND CATALOG, PLEASE CALL 1-800-WONDERS.
• 20:39 I INTERVIEW PEOPLE OF ALL SIDES IN QUESTIONS
• 20:42 AND IF I TALK TO AN AVERAGE MEMBER OF THE ISRAELI PARLIAMENT, THE KNESSET,
• 20:48 I THINK HE WOULD PROBABLY SAY, LOOK, WE WERE HERE A LONG TIME AGO.
• 20:53 THE PALESTINIANS ARE VARIOUS ARABS FROM VARIOUS STATES.
• 20:56 WE MEAN THEM NO HARM.
• 20:58 WE HAVE BROUGHT THE 20TH CENTURY TO THEM AND SO FORTH.
• 21:01 BUT THEY JUST WON'T COOPERATE AND WON'T LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY
• 21:06 AND WE DON'T KNOW WHICH WAY TO TURN.
• 21:08 THAT'S NOT THE RIGHT VIEW OF HISTORY.
• 21:10 ASK THE ISRAELIS YOU TALK TO WHEN DID THEY COME TO PALESTINE.
• 21:14 THOSE WHO ARE ORIGINALLY PALESTINIANS ARE A MINORITY WITHIN ISRAEL.
• 21:19 MOST OF THEM CAME FROM BROOKLYN, FROM MOSCOW, FROM--
• 21:23 THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO CAME WITH THEIR DIFFERENT CULTURES AND LANGUAGES AND SO ON
• 21:28 AND RELIGION BECAME TRANSFORMED INTO A POLITICAL INSTRUMENT IN ORDER TO TAKE OVER A LAND
• 21:34 IN WHICH THERE WERE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN LIVING CONTINUOUSLY FOR CENTURIES.
• 21:39 WE'VE BEEN HERE FOR CENTURIES.
• 21:41 WE DIDN'T EMERGE ONLY IN RESPONSE TO THE CREATION OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL.
• 21:46 ASHRAWI SAYS THAT WE, MEANING THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE,
• 21:51 DIDN'T JUST COME ABOUT IN RESPONSE TO THE CREATION OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL,
• 21:55 ONLY IN RESPONSE.
• 21:57 I THINK THERE'S SOME CANDOR THERE THAT I'D LIKE TO SEE FROM MORE PALESTINIAN SPOKESMEN.
• 22:02 INDEED WHAT SHE'S ACKNOWLEDGING IS THE FACT THAT THERE'S BEEN THIS TREMENDOUS INFLUX
• 22:08 OF ARAB POPULATION INTO THE REGION SINCE THE CREATION OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL.
• 22:13 IN FACT AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, THAT INFLUX BEGAN BACK AS EARLY AS 1900
• 22:20 WHEN THE HIGHER LEVELS OF JEWISH IMMIGRATION BEGAN.
• 22:25 THAT IS A REALITY.
• 22:27 IT IS A REALITY THAT NEEDS TO BE DEALT WITH.
• 22:30 ONCE AGAIN WE SEE THAT THE FOLKS THAT WE REFER TO AS PALESTINIANS
• 22:35 ARE ACTUALLY COMING FROM 22 ARAB STATES, COMING FROM NON-ARAB STATES THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.
• 22:42 THEY'RE MUSLIMS FROM PAKISTAN. THEY'RE MUSLIMS FROM INDONESIA.
• 22:47 THEY'RE MUSLIMS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD.
• 22:48 TODAY WE CALL THEM PALESTINIANS AND WE'RE DISCUSSING GIVING THEM RIGHTS TO A NATIONAL HOMELAND.
• 22:56 IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.
• 22:58 EVERY AMERICAN WOULD LIKE A CLEAR ANSWER TO WHY,
• 23:01 WHEN HE OFFERED A VIABLE PALESTINIAN STATE THAT DIDN'T WASHINGTON--
• 23:05 ARAFAT DIDN'T SAY THIS IS WHAT WE WANT. WE'LL TAKE IT.
• 23:08 I'M GLAD YOU RAISED THIS QUESTION BECAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN SO MANY MYTHS AND DISTORTIONS.
• 23:13 THE AMERICAN VIEWERS HAVE ACCEPTED A CERTAIN VERSION THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH REALITY.
• 23:19 IN CAMP DAVID THERE WAS NO, AS YOU SAY, GENEROUS OFFER.
• 23:24 THERE WERE DISCUSSIONS. THERE WERE INITIAL IDEAS.
• 23:27 THERE WAS NOTHING IN WRITING. THERE WERE NO AGREEMENTS.
• 23:30 THERE WERE JUST IDEAS THAT JUST KEPT CHANGING EVERY DAY
• 23:33 SAYING HOW MUCH LAND CAN BARAK TAKE AWAY FROM THE 22 PERCENT,
• 23:38 WHICH THE WEST BANK AND GAZA TO MAINTAIN MORE SETTLEMENTS?
• 23:42 HOW MUCH LAND CAN HE TAKE THAT WOULD LEAVE THE PALESTINIAN STATE
• 23:45 TERRITORIALLY NON-CONTIGUOUS AND THEREFORE NOT VIABLE?
• 23:49 HE WANTED TO ANNEX AREAS WITHIN JERUSALEM AROUND JERUSALEM.
• 23:54 HE FRAGMENTED THE WEST BANK.
• 23:56 HE WANTED US TO RELINQUISH THE RIGHT OF RETURN FOR ALL REFUGEES JUST LIKE THAT.
• 24:00 AND THEN TO SAY THIS IS THE END OF THE CONFLICT.
• 24:03 WE SAID OKAY, THESE ARE NOT ISSUES ON WHICH WE CAN COME TO AN AGREEMENT.
• 24:09 THERE ARE IDEAS THAT NEED FURTHER DEVELOPMENT.
• 24:12 ASHRAWI SAYS THAT DURING THE BARAK ADMINISTRATION AND DURING THOSE NEGOTIATIONS
• 24:18 THERE WAS NO REJECTION OF A PEACE PLAN.
• 24:23 IN FACT SHE SUGGESTS THERE WAS NO PEACE PLAN AT ALL,
• 24:25 THAT THERE WAS NOTHING REALLY CONCRETE PUT ON THE TABLE.
• 24:28 SO THERE WAS NOTHING TO REJECT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
• 24:30 NOW AS I UNDERSTAND IT SHE WAS NOT A PART OF THOSE NEGOTIATIONS.
• 24:35 SHE WAS NOT A PART OF THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY'S NEGOTIATING TEAM.
• 24:39 SO HER UNDERSTAND OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING WOULD BE BASED ON THE SAME KIND OF FACTS
• 24:43 THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO ALL OF US PEOPLE WHO READ NEWSPAPERS AND SO FORTH.
• 24:48 AND PEOPLE WHO DO READ NEWSPAPERS AND WHO ARE INFORMED ABOUT THOSE NEGOTIATIONS
• 24:53 UNDERSTAND THAT THERE WERE INDEED VERY, VERY CONCRETE PROPOSALS.
• 24:58 UNBELIEVABLE CONCESSIONS THAT WERE MADE BY ISRAELIS, BY THE ISRAELI LEADERSHIP.
• 25:04 IN FACT THE ISRAELI POPULATION WAS STUNNED THAT EVERYTHING WAS PUT ON THE TABLE
• 25:10 INCLUDING JERUSALEM WAS PUT ON THE TABLE.
• 25:13 THE TEMPLE MOUNT WAS PUT ON THE TABLE.
• 25:16 THAT IS INDEED WHY BARAK WAS ULTIMATELY REJECTED
• 25:20 BECAUSE THIS PEACE PLAN FAILED AND THE ISRAELI POPULATION LOOKED AT THAT
• 25:25 AND SAID THERE IS NO WAY WE COULD EVER MAKE THESE FOLKS, THE PALESTINIANS,
• 25:30 HAPPY IF THEY REJECTED THESE KINDS OF CONCESSIONS.
• 25:35 SECONDLY, THE POINT MUST BE MADE THAT ALL OF THE ARAB NATIONS THAT SURROUND ISRAEL
• 25:41 HAVE ONE COMMON VESTED INTEREST, HAVE ONE COMMON ENEMY AND HAVE ONE COMMON GOAL- THE END OF ISRAEL.
• 25:51 THIS IS IMPORTANT FOR US TO REMEMBER.
• 25:55 THIS IS WHY WE AS AMERICANS MUST STAND BEHIND THEM.
• 25:59 THEY ARE OUR GREATEST ALLY BUT THEY ARE ALSO THE MOST VULNERABLE.
• 26:03 WELL IT'S A PROGRAM OF CONTRASTS, ISN'T IT.
• 26:07 THERE AREN'T MANY PROGRAMS WHERE YOU'LL SEE MAYOR EHUD OLMERT OF JERUSALEM
• 26:11 AND HANAN ASHRAWI OF RAMALLAH IN THE SAME PROGRAM TALKING TO THE SAME INTERVIEWER.
• 26:17 ON THE OTHER HAND THAT'S PART OF COVERING ISRAEL.
• 26:21 IT'S A FREE AND OPEN DEMOCRACY.
• 26:24 NOT ENOUGH IS SAID ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE ARABS HAVE THEIR SAY
• 26:26 BECAUSE THEY CAN HAVE THEIR SAY.
• 26:30 THERE ARE COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD WHERE IF YOU DISAGREE WITH THE GOVERNMENT IN POWER
• 26:34 YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET ANY SAY WHATSOEVER.
• 26:37 YOU'RE GOING TO GET NOTHING BUT TROUBLE.
• 26:39 I FELT THAT THE TRIP TO RAMALLAH WAS AN EDUCATIONAL EXPERIENCE, IN A WAY.
• 26:46 I DID NOT INTRUDE MY OWN OPINION INTO IT.
• 26:49 WE GAVE IT TO OUR EXPERTS AND I THINK THEY'RE IMMINENT ARAB CHRISTIANS, VERY COMPETENT IN THE SUBJECT.
• 27:01 I HOPE YOU ENJOYED IT. AND SHA'ALU SHALOM YERUSHALYIM, PRAY FOR THE PEACE OF JERUSALEM.