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Caption transcript for Whose Land Is It?: “The View From ‘Palestine’” with Hanan Ashrawi, Part 1 (1/3)

• 00:10 BRETHREN, MY HEART'S DESIRE AND PRAYER TO GOD FOR ISRAEL IS THAT THEY MIGHT BE SAVED.
• 00:15 THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE JEW AND THE GENTILE.
• 00:18 FOR THE SAME LORD OVERALL IS RICH UNTO ALL THAT CALL UPON HIM.
• 00:24 ZOLA LEVITT PRESENTS
• 00:28 CONSIDERING THE TIMES AND SEASONS OF OUR WORLD TODAY, HERE'S ZOLA LEVITT.
• 00:33 SHALOM, HELLO AGAIN.
• 00:36 ON OUR PAST TRIP TO ISRAEL WE HAD A RATHER EXCITING ADVENTURE.
• 00:40 WE RECEIVED AN OFFER THAT WE COULD GO WITH OUR AMERICAN CREWMEN ONLY, NOT THE ISRAELIS,
• 00:47 TO THE CHECKPOINT AT RAMALLAH AND MEET A FRIENDLY PALESTINIAN TV CREW.
• 00:53 THEY WERE FRIENDLY AND PROFESSIONAL.
• 00:55 THEY WOULD TAKE US INTO RAMALLAH WHERE WE COULD OBSERVE FIRSTHAND
• 00:59 WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE WEST BANK, ARAFAT'S HEADQUARTERS AND ESPECIALLY,
• 01:04 WE COULD INTERVIEW HANAN ASHRAWI,
• 01:07 WHO IS A MAJOR SPOKESMAN FOR THE PLO, THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY.
• 01:12 SHE WAS A MEMBER OF THEIR NATIONAL PARLIAMENT AND SO FORTH.
• 01:17 SHE'S A VERY OUTSPOKEN CRITIC OF ISRAEL, ONE OF THE IMPORTANT VOICES IN THIS ONGOING CONTROVERSY.
• 01:25 WE TOOK THEM UP ON IT. WE CROSSED THROUGH THE CHECKPOINT.
• 01:30 IT WAS RATHER TENSE AND PRESSURESOME.
• 01:33 WE MET WITH MRS. ASHRAWI. SHE TALKED TO ME.
• 01:39 IT'S JUST HER POINT OF VIEW, OBVIOUSLY.
• 01:43 IN SOME WAYS I FOUND MYSELF DISAGREEING WITH HER CHARACTERIZING THINGS.
• 01:50 I KNEW THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE THE CASE, BUT I DIDN'T WANT TO COMMENT PERSONALLY.
• 01:55 I DIDN'T WANT IT TO BE ZOLA VERSUS DR. ASHRAWI.
• 01:59 WE HAVE FRIENDS OVER HERE WHO ARE ARAB-CHRISTIANS. SHE'S AN ARAB-CHRISTIAN.
• 02:04 SO, WE TOOK THE TAPE OF OUR INTERVIEW TO TWO MEN WHO ARE VERY TRUSTWORTHY
• 02:10 IN ARAB-CHRISTIAN AFFAIRS AND ALSO ON THE SITUATION IN THE HOLY LAND
• 02:15 AND THAT IS DR. ERGUN CANER, WHO IS A PROFESSOR AT CRISWELL COLLEGE.
• 02:19 HE'S BEEN ON OUR PROGRAM BEFORE, AND JOSEPH FARAH, A JOURNALIST.
• 02:23 HE IS THE EDITOR OF THE WORLD NET DAILY, A COMPUTER PAGE,
• 02:28 ONE OF THE LARGEST NEWS PAGES ON THE COMPUTER. IT'S VERY IMPORTANT.
• 02:33 HE ALSO IS AN ARAB-CHRISTIAN.
• 02:36 WHAT WE DID WAS TAKE THE POINTS SHE MADE AND GIVE THEM TO DR. CANER AND TO JOSEPH FARAH AND LET THEM COMMENT.
• 02:42 WE'LL LET YOU BE THE JUDGE. WE STARTED THIS WAY.
• 02:49 DR. ASHRAWI, I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU TAKING TIME TO TALK WITH US THIS MORNING.
• 02:54 MY PLEASURE. CALL ME HANAN, PLEASE.
• 02:55 HANAN, I WILL. I KNOW YOU'RE VERY BUSY.
• 02:59 I NOTICED IN THE PAPER THE OTHER DAY
• 03:02 THAT WHILE MR. ARAFAT MADE CHANGES IN THE PALESTINIAN CABINET,
• 03:06 YOU DIDN'T APPROVE ENTIRELY OF THE CHANGES.
• 03:09 NO,I ACTUALLY POLITELY DECLINED MY APPOINTMENT TO THE CABINET ONE MORE TIME
• 03:15 BECAUSE I FELT THAT THIS WASN'T THE REAL CHANGE THAT WE NEEDED.
• 03:19 WE DON'T WANT CHANGE FOR CHANGES SAKE. WE WANT A QUALITATIVE SHIFT.
• 03:23 I GUESS THERE'S A CERTAIN AMOUNT, AS IN MOST GOVERNMENTS, THERE'S CORRUPTION AND PROBLEMS.
• 03:29 YOU HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A VOICE AGAINST THAT SORT OF THING.
• 03:32 YES.I'M CERTAINLY FOR INTEGRITY IN GOVERNMENT.
• 03:36 A SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT THAT IS HUMAN BASED AND ESSENTIALLY DEMOCRATIC AND, OF COURSE,
• 03:41 EXERCISING THE PRINCIPLE OF ACCOUNTABILITY AND BUILDING EFFICIENT AND PROFESSIONAL
• 03:47 AND TRANSPARENT INSTITUTIONS RESPECTING THE RULE OF--
• 03:50 I COULD RECITE THE WHOLE THING, BUT I KNOW WE CAN DO IT.
• 03:53 I KNOW WE HAVE THE HUMAN CAPACITY TO DO IT.
• 03:57 THE PROBLEM IS WE NEED THE WILL TO CARRY OUT THIS CHANGE AND TO BREAK WITH THE LEGACIES
• 04:01 THAT HAVE BROUGHT ABOUT SUCH TREMENDOUS SUFFERING.
• 04:04 I FEEL THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE DESERVE IT. THEY DESERVE BETTER.
• 04:09 WITH REGARD TO HANAN ASHRAWI'S COMMENTS ABOUT INTEGRITY,
• 04:14 WE HAVE TO GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE.
• 04:17 HANAN ASHRAWI IS ONE OF THE FEW PEOPLE IN THE ARAB WORLD WHO HAS CRITICIZED ARAFAT AND THE PLO FOR CORRUPTION.
• 04:24 OF COURSE, THERE IS PLENTY OF CORRUPTION TO GO AROUND.
• 04:27 MUCH OF THE MONEY THAT HAS BEEN FUNNELED INTO THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY FROM WESTERN EUROPE,
• 04:34 FROM THE UNITED STATES, FROM THE ARAB COUNTRIES,
• 04:37 HAS FOUND ITSELF IN THE COFFERS OF PEOPLE LIKE YASSER ARAFAT IN THEIR SWISS BANK ACCOUNTS.
• 04:43 SOME ESTIMATE THAT SUM IS IN THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
• 04:48 ASHRAWI HAS BEEN CRITICAL OF THAT FACT. THAT'S GOOD.
• 04:54 BUT I THINK SHE'S SOFT PEDALING IT A LITTLE BIT. YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.
• 04:58 YOU CANNOT BUILD A PALESTINIAN FREE STATE ON A FOUNDATION OF CORRUPTION.
• 05:04 THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE IN YASSER ARAFAT'S PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY.
• 05:09 NOT ONLY DOES THE MONEY COME FROM FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS,
• 05:13 THE MONEY ALSO COMES FROM A LONG HISTORY OF NARCO-TERRORISM.
• 05:17 THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY IS DEEPLY INVOLVED IN DRUG TRAFFICKING INTERNATIONALLY.
• 05:22 THEY'RE INVOLVED IN COUNTERFEITING.
• 05:23 THEY'RE INVOLVED IN THE KIND OF CORRUPTION THAT WE, HERE IN THE UNITED STATES
• 05:27 ASSOCIATE WITH GANGLAND MOB STYLE VIOLENCE.
• 05:32 THEY SHAKE DOWN THEIR OWN CITIZENS THROUGHOUT THE WEST BANK AND GAZA.
• 05:37 I'D LIKE TO SEE HANAN ASHRAWI GO A LITTLE BIT FURTHER IN HER CRITICISM OF THAT CORRUPTION.
• 05:45 YASSER ARAFAT IS AN ASSOCIATE OF YOURS, OF COURSE.
• 05:49 IT APPEARS HE'S A LITTLE BIT FRAIL AT THIS TIME. IS HIS HEALTH IN GOOD ORDER?
• 05:53 HIS HEALTH IS FINE, GIVEN HIS AGE.
• 05:57 HE DOES TAKE CARE OF HIMSELF. HE EATS HEALTHY. HE RESTS ENOUGH.
• 06:02 BUT HE'S UNDER TREMENDOUS PRESSURE.
• 06:04 HE'S BETWEEN A ROCK AND A HARD PLACE, LITERALLY.
• 06:06 AND HE'S FIGHTING ONCE AGAIN FOR HIS OWN SURVIVAL AS WELL AS NATIONAL SURVIVAL.
• 06:12 SO HE'S IN A VERY DIFFICULT AND PRECARIOUS SITUATION.
• 06:16 DO YOU THINK HE'LL BE REELECTED IN THIS COMING ELECTION?
• 06:19 OH YEAH.YOU SEE, PRESIDENT ARAFAT HAS SOMETHING THAT VERY FEW PALESTINIANS HAVE.
• 06:24 HE HAS A SORT OF SYMBOLIC NATIONAL, HISTORICAL DIMENSION.
• 06:29 SO PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO FORGIVE HIM HIS TRESPASSES
• 06:33 MORE THAN THEY ARE WILLING TO FORGIVE ANYBODY ELSE'S TRESPASSES.
• 06:36 SO THEY LOOK AT THE CABINET. THEY LOOK AT THE PEOPLE AROUND HIM.
• 06:40 THEY BLAME THEM. THEY HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE.
• 06:43 BUT SOMEHOW THEY KEEP EXEMPTING ARAFAT FROM THIS TYPE OF INTRUSIVE ACCOUNTABILITY.
• 06:50 I HEAR HE SPEAKS ARABIC WITH AN EGYPTIAN ACCENT.
• 06:54 HE IS ORIGINALLY EGYPTIAN AND SOME OBJECT AND SOME TALK.
• 06:58 NO, HE IS NOT ORIGINALLY EGYPTIAN.
• 07:01 HE'S PALESTINIAN DEFINITELY, BUT HE SPENT PART OF HIS CHILDHOOD IN EGYPT AND HIS GROWING UP YEARS.
• 07:07 HE WENT TO COLLEGE IN EGYPT, SO HE HAS THAT EGYPTIAN ACCENT, YES.
• 07:12 IT'S SOMETHING VERY SUPERFICIAL. YOU DON'T JUDGE PEOPLE BY THEIR ACCENTS.
• 07:19 HANAN ASHRAWI TALKS ABOUT THE SYMBOLIC NATURE OF YASSER ARAFAT AND THERE CERTAINLY IS A LOT OF SYMBOLISM INVOLVED.
• 07:26 I WOULD SUGGEST, HOWEVER, THAT IT IS BASED MORE ON MYTH THAN REALITY.
• 07:31 SHE TALKS ABOUT THE FACT THAT YASSER ARAFAT WENT TO COLLEGE IN EGYPT
• 07:35 AND SHE SOFT PEDALS THE IDEA THAT HE'S NOT A PALESTINIAN.
• 07:38 WELL, THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS HE'S NOT A PALESTINIAN.
• 07:42 THIS FACT THAT HE WAS SUPPORTED BY EGYPT, THAT HE CAME FROM EGYPT,
• 07:46 THAT HE WAS BORN IN EGYPT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THE DYNAMIC OF THE PALESTINIAN ISRAELI CRISIS.
• 07:54 YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO DEFINE WHO IS A PALESTINIAN
• 07:58 TO UNDERSTAND THE NATURE OF THIS STRUGGLE.
• 08:01 IF YASSER ARAFAT IS A PALESTINIAN,
• 08:03 THEN ANY ARAB WHO TRAVELS FROM ANY OTHER COUNTRY AND VISITS
• 08:07 OR SETTLES IN THAT REGION CAN BE CONSIDERED A PALESTINIAN.
• 08:11 WHEN YOU CONSIDER THE FACT THAT THE ARAB POPULATION IS ABOUT 100 TO 1 TO JEWISH POPULATION IN THE MIDDLE EAST,
• 08:19 YOU'RE NOT PLAYING ON AN EVEN PLAYING FIELD BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION.
• 08:25 THAT IS A FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM THAT ISRAEL IS DEALING WITH ALL THE TIME.
• 08:30 THERE ARE MORE ARABS LIVING IN THAT REGION TODAY THEN EVER BEFORE.
• 08:35 YET CONSTANTLY WHAT WE HEAR IS THAT CONDITIONS ARE SO HORRENDOUS IN THE WEST BANK
• 08:40 AND THE OPPRESSION EVEN FOR ARABS WITHIN ISRAEL IS SO BAD.
• 08:46 THE QUESTION IS, IF IT'S SO BAD, IF CONDITIONS ARE THAT BAD,
• 08:49 WHY DO THE ARABS CONTINUE TO MIGRATE FROM EVERY OTHER ARAB COUNTRY IN THE WORLD AND EVEN OTHER MUSLIM COUNTRIES?
• 08:56 YOU WILL MEET PEOPLE WHO DEFINE THEMSELVES AS PALESTINIANS TODAY IN THAT REGION
• 09:02 WHO COME FROM CHECHNYA, WHO COME FROM BOSNIA, WHO COME FROM KOSOVO, WHO COME FROM IRAN.
• 09:07 NOT EVEN ARAB POPULATION, NOT EVEN ARAB PEOPLE AND THEY'RE CONSIDERING THEMSELVES PALESTINIAN.
• 09:14 THAT IS A REAL PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE AND I THINK THAT'S IT'S ONE THAT IS BEING SOFT PEDALED BY HANAN ASHRAWI.
• 09:23 THE SITUATION WITH IRAQ HAS SOME AMERICANS WONDERING IF HE, THIS TIME,
• 09:28 IS SYMPATHETIC WITH SADDAM OR WHERE DOES THE GOVERNMENT HERE STAND?
• 09:33 I THINK THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE AS A WHOLE ARE SYMPATHETIC TO THE IRAQI PEOPLE.
• 09:40 THERE IS A SORT OF AFFILIATION AND AN EMPATHY WITH SUFFERING.
• 09:46 THE IRAQI PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING IN MULTIPLE WAYS.
• 09:51 THEY ARE SUFFERING BECAUSE THEY HAVE SUCH A SYSTEM AS THE SADDAM REGION
• 09:54 AND THEY ARE PAYING THE PRICE OF THE DECISIONS OF THE SADDAM REGIME.
• 09:58 OF COURSE, YOU WILL FIND SYMPATHY AMONG THE PALESTINIANS AND THE ARAB WORLD.
• 10:02 I THINK ALL PEOPLE OF CONSCIENCE, THEY DON'T WANT TO SEE INNOCENT PEOPLE SUFFER.
• 10:06 AT THE SAME TIME I DON'T THINK YOU WOULD FIND ANYBODY WHO SUPPORTS SADDAM, PER SE, NO.
• 10:11 AS A GOVERNMENT, AS A SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT, AS A RULER THERE'S NOT MUCH LOVE LOST.
• 10:18 I THINK SOME OF THE EMOTIONAL MISTAKES OF THE PAST ARE NO LONGER IN EFFECT NOW.
• 10:25 HANAN ASHRAWI SAYS THAT THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE IDENTIFY WITH THE IRAQI PEOPLE
• 10:31 BECAUSE OF THE SUFFERING THAT THE IRAQI PEOPLE HAVE UNDERGONE.
• 10:35 WELL, THERE'S MUCH MORE TO IT THAN THAT.
• 10:38 ONE OF THE REASONS THAT YASSER ARAFAT AND SO MANY OF HIS ENTOURAGE
• 10:42 ARE SUPPORTIVE OF SADDAM HUSSEIN AND BY THE WAY,
• 10:46 WERE SUPPORTIVE OF SADDAM HUSSEIN AND IRAQ THROUGHOUT THE PERSIAN GULF WAR,
• 10:50 ARE SUPPORTIVE OF THEM NOW AS THE UNITED STATES IS ON THE PRECIPICE OF ANOTHER WAR WITH IRAQ.
• 10:56 THE REASON THEY ARE SO SUPPORTIVE IS BECAUSE SADDAM HUSSEIN HAS BEEN A CONSISTENT SUPPORTER OF THE PLO
• 11:03 AND PLO TERRORISM THROUGHOUT HIS REIGN OF TERROR IN IRAQ.
• 11:21 I'VE BEEN LISTENING TO ZOLA FOR 5 OR 6 YEARS.
• 11:23 MY MOTHER CALLED AND SAID, "I'M PLANNING A TRIP TO ISRAEL. WOULD YOU LIKE TO GO?"
• 11:27 I DIDN'T HESITATE. I SAID, "ABSOLUTELY"
• 11:30 SHE SAID, "DO YOU KNOW ANYWHERE OR HOW TO GET THERE?"
• 11:31 I SAID, "ABSOLUTELY. LET ME GIVE ZOLA A CALL."
• 11:34 THIS IS THE MOST SPECIAL PLACE IN THE WORLD.THIS WAS THE PLACE WE WANTED TO BE.
• 11:38 WE CAN'T IMAGINE THAT WE'RE HERE.IT'S, YOU KNOW, WE JUST CAN'T IMAGINE WE'RE HERE.
• 11:50 WE STILL CONTINUE OUR TOURS TO JERUSALEM ON OUR NORMAL SCHEDULE.
• 11:54 THEY ARE GOING ON WITHOUT EVENT.
• 11:57 AGAIN, I'VE PROVED MANY TIMES IT'S MORE DANGEROUS TO STAY HOME THAN TO GO TO ISRAEL
• 12:02 DESPITE WHAT THE NEWS, THE WAY THEY COLOR IN WHAT'S GOING ON OVER THERE.
• 12:07 THERE WILL COME A DAY IT WILL BE PERFECTLY PEACEFUL IN JERUSALEM
• 12:10 WHEN WE ALL LIVE THERE IN THE KINGDOM TO COME.
• 12:13 I REFER YOU TO ISAIAH 11:9:
• 12:25 IT'S VERY ENCOURAGING.
• 12:27 ON OUR LAST TOUR WE HAD THIS ADVENTURE WHERE WE WENT TO RAMALLAH.
• 12:31 THAT'S JUST NEAR JERUSALEM, ALMOST A SUBURB.
• 12:35 WE DROVE IN WITH A PALESTINIAN CREW TO INTERVIEW HANAN ASHRAWI,
• 12:39 A PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY SPOKESPERSON.
• 12:42 THEN WE TOOK THAT TAPE TO OUR FRIENDS DR. ERGUN CANER
• 12:46 AND JOSEPH FARAH, ARAB-AMERICAN, WELL, ARAB-CHRISTIANS.
• 12:50 DR. CANER IS NOT AMERICAN. HE'S LEBANESE TO START WITH.
• 12:54 FARAH WAS RAISED IN AMERICA. THEY COMMENTED ON WHAT SHE SAID.
• 12:59 PICKING THAT UP AGAIN, HERE'S DR. ASHRAWI.
• 13:04 THE ADVERTISEMENT THAT RAN RECENTLY WITH A NUMBER OF SIGNATURES INCLUDING YOURSELF,
• 13:09 ABOUT THE SUICIDE BOMBINGS, YOU SAID THEY ARE COUNTER PRODUCTIVE.
• 13:14 STILL, THERE IS HERE AND THERE AN INCIDENT. WHAT'S YOU POSITION ON THIS?
• 13:21 WELL, I BELIEVE THEY ARE TARGETING INNOCENT CIVILIANS REGARDLESS OF NATIONALITY,
• 13:27 RACE, COLOR, ETHNIC ORIGIN, CREED, RELIGIOUS AFFILIATION.
• 13:31 THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE, MORALLY REPREHENSIBLE AND SHOULD BE STOPPED IMMEDIATELY.
• 13:37 I BELIEVE THAT, REGARDLESS OF THE MOTIVES, THE JUSTIFICATIONS,
• 13:43 THE FEELINGS OF THE PERPETRATORS THAT THERE IS NO WAY IN WHICH THAT SHOULD BE ACCEPTED.
• 13:50 SO, I THINK WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS ISSUE SERIOUSLY AND PUBLICLY.
• 13:55 WE HAVE TO LAUNCH A DEBATE, A DIALOGUE ON THE ISSUE
• 13:58 AND WE CANNOT JUSTIFY THE TARGETING OF ISRAELI CIVILIANS
• 14:02 BY SAYING OUR CIVILIANS HAVE BEEN SYSTEMATICALLY TARGETED BY ISRAEL,
• 14:06 BECAUSE WHAT YOU CONDEMN WHEN IT IS DONE UNTO YOU, YOU DO NOT APPROVE,
• 14:10 YOU DO NOT ADOPT AS A MEANS OF RETALIATION AND REVENGE.
• 14:16 THANKFULLY WE'RE FINDING SOME PALESTINIANS WHO ARE AGAINST THE JIHADIN,
• 14:21 AGAINST THESE ACTS OF PUBLIC SUICIDE BOMBING.
• 14:24 THE SAD THING IS ALMOST ALL OF THE RECENT POLLS INDICATE THAT THE MAJORITY,
• 14:29 IF NOT THE SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF MUSLIMS BELIEVE THAT SUICIDE BOMBINGS ARE NOT ONLY NECESSARY,
• 14:34 BUT ACTUALLY MORALLY SOUND ACTS IN DEFENSE OF WHAT THEY BELIEVE TO BE THE TRUTH.
• 14:42 THE PEACE PROCESS, SUCH AS IT IS IT HAS ITS UPS AND DOWNS.
• 14:46 WHAT CHANGES WOULD YOU MAKE AT THIS, WHERE WE ARE NOW, TO MAKE IT GO, TO BRING PEACE?
• 14:52 WELL, I WISH I WERE IN CONTROL OF ALL THE FACTORS.
• 14:54 UNFORTUNATELY, I DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO REAPPOINT AN ISRAELI GOVERNMENT THAT WOULD BE COMMITTED TO PEACE.
• 15:00 I BELIEVE THE GREATEST OBSTACLE TO PEACE IS THE NATURE OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT,
• 15:05 THE ONGOING SETTLEMENT ACTIVITIES, THE EXTREMISM,
• 15:08 THE SORT OF BUILT IN RACISM OF THE OCCUPIER, THE MENTALITY OF THE OCCUPIER,
• 15:13 UNBRIDLED POWER RESORTING TO VIOLENCE,
• 15:15 THINKING THAT MILITARY MIGHT CAN SUBDUE A NATION UNDER OCCUPATION.
• 15:19 THAT IS ONE ESSENTIAL INGREDIENT.
• 15:23 WE HAVE TO APPEAL TO THE ISRAELI PUBLIC TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE EXTREMISM AND VIOLENCE OF THIS GOVERNMENT
• 15:29 IS BRINGING DISASTER DOWN ON BOTH OUR HEADS, ON OUR SIDE AND ON THE ISRAELI SIDE.
• 15:35 AT THE SAME TIME WE NEED TO BUILD, TO PUT OUR OWN HOUSE IN ORDER,
• 15:38 TO BUILD OUR OWN INSTITUTION OF DEMOCRACY AND AT THE SAME TIME TO HAVE 3RD PARTY PARTICIPATION.
• 15:45 I BELIEVE THIS IS A GLOBAL ENDEAVOR.IT IS NOT BILATERAL.
• 15:49 IN THIS ASYMMETRY OF POWER YOU DO NEED INTERNATIONAL PARTICIPATION,
• 15:54 POSITIVE INTERVENTION TO PREVENT FURTHER DETERIORATION
• 15:57 AND TO LAUNCH A PEACE PROCESS THAT WOULD HAVE SUBSTANCE, CREDIBILITY AND APPLICABILITY ON THE GROUND.
• 16:04 AS USUAL, HANAN ASHRAWI BLAMES THE ISRAELIS FOR BEING THE OBSTACLE TO PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST.
• 16:11 OF COURSE, THAT IS TERRIBLY, TERRIBLY UNFAIR.
• 16:15 ANY IMPARTIAL OBSERVER WILL LOOK AT THE CONCESSIONS THAT WERE MADE,
• 16:21 PARTICULARLY THROUGH THE BARAK ADMINISTRATION
• 16:24 AND RECOGNIZE THAT CLEARLY YASSER ARAFAT AND THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY
• 16:31 WERE NOT WILLING TO NEGOTIATE IN GOOD FAITH AT ALL.
• 16:34 THEIR REAL OBJECTIVES ARE THE DESTRUCTION OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL.
• 16:38 NO INTERIM GROUNDS WOULD EVER BE ACCEPTABLE TO THEM.
• 16:42 ONLY FOR WESTERN AUDIENCES DOES THIS IDEA THAT THE PALESTINIANS WANT TO CREATE THEIR OWN SEPARATE STATE,
• 16:51 SIDE BY SIDE WITH ISRAEL, LIVING IN PEACE,
• 16:54 ONLY IN WESTERN AUDIENCES IS THAT MESSAGE EVEN DISSEMINATED.
• 17:00 IT GOES BACK TO A STRATEGY THAT WAS DEVELOPED BACK IN 1970, INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH,
• 17:06 WHEN A HIGH LEVEL PLO DELEGATION WENT TO HANOI, WENT TO NORTH VIETNAM.
• 17:12 THEY ASKED THE VIETNAMESE WHY THE WESTERN WORLD LOOKED AT THE VIETNAMESE STRUGGLE AS A NATION LIBERATION MOVEMENT
• 17:21 AND LOOKED AT THE PALESTINIAN MOVEMENT AS A TERRORIST MOVEMENT.
• 17:26 THE NORTH VIETNAMESE GAVE THEM SOME VERY CANDID ADVICE ABOUT HOW TO DEAL WITH THAT.
• 17:30 ONE OF THE OBJECTIVES WAS THIS IDEA OF CREATING INTERIM STEPS TO THEIR ULTIMATE OBJECTIVE,
• 17:37 WHICH HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL.
• 17:40 THE VIETNAMESE GAVE THEM THE ADVICE TO COME UP WITH A PLAN FOR THEIR OWN STATE
• 17:46 AS AN INTERIM STEP THAT WOULD DEFINE THEM THEN, AS A NATIONAL LIBERATION MOVEMENT.
• 17:51 THAT'S WHAT THEY HAVE DONE. IT'S BEEN A PROPAGANDA PLOY FOR THE LAST 32 YEARS,
• 17:56 DEVELOPED WITH THE NORTH VIETNAMESE COMMUNISTS BACK IN 1970.
• 18:03 WHAT IS THE REAL HISTORY OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE IN THIS LAND?
• 18:07 WE GO BACK CENTURIES. ACTUALLY, IF YOU WANT, WE GO BACK TO THE CANAANITES.
• 18:12 THE CANAANITES? >>YES.
• 18:14 THE PALESTINIANS ARE THE LONGEST STANDING, ON GOING, HISTORICAL, HUMAN TRADITION IN PALESTINE.
• 18:22 OF COURSE, WE ARE ALSO A MIX OF SO MANY TRIBES THAT CAME INTO PALESTINE.
• 18:28 BUT THOSE OF US, I MEAN MY FAMILY HAS BEEN HERE FOR CENTURIES.
• 18:32 MOST PEOPLE TRACE THEIR FAMILIES CENTURIES AND THOUSANDS OF YEARS.
• 18:36 IT'S AMAZING FOR PEOPLE TO TELL US YOU'RE AN ACCIDENT OF HISTORY OR THIS LAND THAT'S YOUR LAND.
• 18:43 WHEN WE DEFINE OUR BEING, OUR CULTURE, OUR HISTORY, OUR SENSE OF VALUE
• 18:46 FROM BEING THE PEOPLE OF THE LAND AND THEN WE ARE TOLD, NO,
• 18:49 THIS LAND HAS TO BE GIVEN AWAY IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE BIBLE OR SOMETHING.
• 18:53 IF YOU REORGANIZE THE WORLD IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE BIBLE, YOU'D BE IN SERIOUS TROUBLE.
• 18:59 THERE ARE 3 FUNDAMENTAL POINTS THAT I THINK ARE NECESSARY TO MAKE HERE, HISTORICALLY.
• 19:03 NUMBER ONE IS THE LUDICROUS STATEMENT ABOUT A PALESTINIAN NATION.
• 19:07 THERE HAS NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF CIVILIZATION BEEN A PALESTINIAN NATION - EVER.
• 19:13 THE HUMAN CRY FOR A PALESTINIAN STATE DID NOT EVEN BEGIN UNTIL 1948 WHEN ISRAEL BECAME A NATION ITSELF.
• 19:20 ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I MAKE OF STATEMENT WHEN I DO PUBLIC DEBATES IS I SAY,
• 19:23 I BELIEVE THE PALESTINIANS SHOULD HAVE AS MUCH LAND AS THEY HAVE EVER HAD HISTORICALLY, WHICH, OF COURSE, IS NONE.
• 19:31 SHE BELIEVES THAT SHE IS A CHRISTIAN AND AS A PROFESSED CHRISTIAN
• 19:34 SHE SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT GOD MADE A COVENANT WITH ISRAEL. THIS IS FUNDAMENTALLY IMPORTANT.
• 19:41 THE LAND WAS GIVEN BY GOD TO THE JEWS.
• 19:44 AS A PALESTINIAN-CHRISTIAN, SHE MUST KNOW HER OLD TESTAMENT ON THIS.
• 19:49 THE FINAL THING I WANT TO ASK IS, WHY, IN THE MIDST OF ALL OF THIS CRY FOR PEACE,
• 19:55 WHY HAS NOT ONE ARAB NATION OFFERED A PARCEL OF THEIR LAND TO GIVE TO THE PALESTINIANS?
• 20:03 THE ANSWER IS THIS IS NOT AS MUCH ABOUT GIVING THE PALESTINIANS A NATION
• 20:06 AS MUCH AS IT IS FOR TAKING AWAY A NATION FROM ISRAEL.
• 20:12 HANAN ASHRAWI, I BELIEVE, IS SOMEBODY WHO BELIEVES PRINCIPALLY IN FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY
• 20:18 AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS AND I GIVE HER HIGH MARKS FOR SINCERITY.
• 20:21 BUT WHEN SHE TALKS ABOUT THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE RETRACING THEIR HISTORY TO THE CANAANITES,
• 20:27 SHE LOSES ME.
• 20:30 WHEN SHE TALKS ABOUT THE FACT THAT PALESTINIANS HAVE THE LONGEST STANDING TRADITION
• 20:36 OF HUMANITY IN THAT REGION OF THE WORLD, AGAIN, SHE LOSES ME.
• 20:41 WHAT WE NEED TO DO, WE DON'T NEED TO GO BACK THOUSANDS OF YEARS TO SEE WHO'S BEEN LIVING IN THAT PART OF THE WORLD.
• 20:48 WE CAN GO BACK TO THE TURN OF THE 20TH CENTURY AND LOOK AT WHAT THE POPULATION LEVELS WERE.
• 20:54 AT THAT TIME, WHEN THE AREA WE CALL PALESTINE WAS RULED BY THE ISLAMIC OTTOMAN EMPIRE,
• 21:03 THE MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION IN JERUSALEM, THE OVERWHELMING POPULATION IN JERUSALEM WAS JEWISH.
• 21:10 THE SECOND HIGHEST POPULATION LEVEL WAS AMONG CHRISTIAN-ARABS.
• 21:16 MUSLIMS, WHO NOW TELL US THAT JERUSALEM IS THE 3RD HOLIEST SITE IN ALL OF ISLAM,
• 21:22 ACTUALLY WERE A VERY SMALL MINORITY OF ABOUT 10 PERCENT OF THE POPULATION.
• 21:28 IT'S VERY HARD FOR ME TO LOOK AT WHAT HANAN ASHRAWI SAYS ABOUT THIS LONG STANDING TRADITION IN THE REGION.
• 21:36 THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS THE ARAB POPULATION HAS BEEN ON THE INCREASE EVER SINCE THE TURN OF THE 20TH CENTURY
• 21:45 AND THEY CAME FOR 2 PRINCIPLE REASONS.
• 21:47 THEY CAME BECAUSE OF THE ECONOMIC ACTIVITY STIRRED BY THE JEWISH IMMIGRATION INTO THE REGION AND THEY CAME,
• 21:54 INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, BECAUSE OF THE FREEDOM THE JEWS BROUGHT WITH THEM.
• 22:01 AMONG OUR AUDIENCE THERE ARE A NUMBER OF BIBLE READERS,
• 22:04 SINCE YOU BRING UP THE BIBLE. WHAT IS THE HISTORY OF THE JEWS IN THE LAND?
• 22:09 BECAUSE THEY WOULD HOLD THAT THE JEWS HAVE BEEN HERE SINCE THE CANAANITES, AS WELL.
• 22:12 THE JEWS CAME AND WENT IN MANY WAYS AND THEY WERE PART OF THE PLURALISM AND THE DIVERSITY OF THIS CULTURE.
• 22:19 OF COURSE, THERE WERE MANY JEWS WHO STAYED, BUT IT HASN'T BEEN A JEWISH STATE SO TO SPEAK.
• 22:24 IT'S BEEN AN ARAB STATE FOR CENTURIES.
• 22:26 WE AS CHRISTIANS AND I'M VERY PROUD OF MY CULTURE,
• 22:31 WE GO BACK TO THE EARLIEST CHRISTIAN TRADITION.
• 22:34 SO I'M AMAZED WHEN I HEAR PEOPLE IN THE WESTERN OR IN THE BIBLE BELT WHAT I SHOULD BE,
• 22:40 OR IMPOSING ON ME THEIR INTERPRETATIONS OF CHRISTIANITY,
• 22:44 WHICH AFTER ALL IS A MIDDLE-EASTERN RELIGION.
• 22:48 WE PRACTICE IT.WE EXERCISE IT. WE LIVE IT AS A LIVING CULTURE.
• 22:54 IT IS PART OF OUR IDENTITY. IT IS MY HISTORY. IT IS MY CULTURE.
• 22:58 IT IS PART OF MY AUTHENTICITY IN THE WAY AS THE LAND IS MY HISTORY AND MY CULTURE.
• 23:04 AFTER ALL, WE BELONG TO A DUAL TRADITION;
• 23:07 THE PRESENT CULTURE AND TRADITION WHICH MAKES THE LAND SACRED
• 23:11 AND OF COURSE,THE BIRTH OF THE 3 MONOTHEISTIC RELIGIONS.
• 23:15 SO, THAT GIVES IT ADDITIONAL VALUE AND SPIRITUALITY.
• 23:21 BOTH MERGE IN MY CULTURE AND I FEEL THAT I'M A VERY PRIVILEGED OF THESE CULTURES,
• 23:27 OF THIS PLURALISM AND TOLERANCE AND DIVERSITY.
• 23:32 THE PROBLEM COMES WHEN YOU TRANSFORM A RELIGION INTO A NATIONAL CAUSE
• 23:36 AND IDENTITY AND YOU TRY TO CLAIM EXCLUSIVITY
• 23:40 AND YOU EXPEL THE RIGHTFUL PEOPLE OF THE LAND IN ORDER TO RECLAIM.
• 23:46 AND YOU BRING IN PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD, THINKING THAT THIS IS YOUR BIRTHRIGHT WHEN WE HAVE LAND DEEDS.
• 23:51 WE HAVE HISTORY. WE HAVE ONGOING REALITY THAT TELLS YOU THIS IS OURS.
• 23:56 IT'S NOT A QUESTION OF GREED, IT'S A QUESTION OF CONTINUITY.
• 24:00 IT'S A QUESTION OF A LONG STANDING, ANCIENT CULTURE.
• 24:04 WE ARE PROUD OF OUR HERITAGE. WE ARE A PROUD NATION AFTER ALL.
• 24:08 WE WILL NOT BE DISLODGED OR DISPOSSESSED.
• 24:10 THAT'S WHY THE TRAGEDY OF '48 MEANT SO MUCH TO THE PALESTINIANS
• 24:14 BECAUSE WHEN YOU DISPOSSESS, DISPERSE AND EXILE A NATION THAT HAS LIVED WITH THE LAND,
• 24:20 ON THE LAND WITH THE SENSE OF FAMILY AND COMMUNITY AS BEING THE MAIN SOURCE OF SECURITY--
• 24:26 AND WE CERTAINLY ARE A STATIONARY PEOPLE.
• 24:29 OUR METAPHOR IS VERY ORGANIC. WE ARE DEEP ROOTED.
• 24:40 WHEN YOU UPROOT A NATION, YOU ROB IT OF ALL ITS SENSE OF SECURITY, OF ITS IDENTITY, OF ITS COMMUNITY.
• 24:49 THIS IS THE WORST TRAGEDY THAT CAN BEFALL A NATION.
• 24:53 THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PALESTINIANS.
• 24:56 OBVIOUSLY, FOR PEOPLE TO BE DISLODGED AND DISPOSSESSED
• 24:59 THEY MUST TO HAVE ONE TIME BEEN LODGED AND HAVE POSSESSED THE LAND.
• 25:03 AGAIN, THEY DIDN'T CLAIM LAND OR STATEHOOD BEFORE 1948. IT IS ONLY NOW AFTER.
• 25:09 WHAT YOU HAVE IS THE ARAB WORLD HAS ONE COMMON ENEMY, ONE COMMON GOAL.
• 25:13 THAT IS THE COMPLETE ANNIHILATION AND DISPOSSESSION OF ISRAEL.
• 25:20 NOT EVERYTHING IN RAMALLAH WAS A PEACEFUL CONVERSATION.
• 25:24 WE CROSSED A VERY TENSE BORDER WITH A LOT OF SOLDIERS.
• 25:29 IT'S LIKE TWO COUNTRIES AT WAR ALMOST WHEN YOU COME TO A PLACE LIKE THAT.
• 25:35 WE LOOKED AT ARAFAT'S HEADQUARTERS, OR WHAT'S LEFT OF THEM.
• 25:38 THE NEWS HAS NOT DONE JUSTICE TO WHAT'S HAPPENED THERE. WE GOT OUR OWN FOOTAGE ON THAT.
• 25:47 WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE NEXT WEEK WITH THE REST OF THE INTERVIEW WITH MRS. ASHRAWI
• 25:51 AND THE COMMENTARY BY DR. CANER AND BY JOSEPH FARAH.
• 25:57 I SHOULD GIVE MRS. ASHRAWI HER DUE.
• 25:58 SHE ALSO HOLDS A DOCTORATE. SHE TAUGHT AT UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA.
• 26:05 THIS WAS AN INTERVIEW WHERE I RECEIVED INFORMATION I DIDN'T KNOW.
• 26:11 LIKE I SAID AT THE BEGINNING, SOME OF IT I OBVIOUSLY DON'T AGREE WITH, BUT I THOUGHT,
• 26:15 I WILL STEP ASIDE AND NOT BE THE COMMENTATOR.
• 26:18 I USUALLY AM THE COMMENTATOR, BUT THERE ARE MORE EXPERT PEOPLE AND, MORE SO, THEY ARE HER PEERS
• 26:25 DR. CANER AND JOSEPH FARAH ARE EXACTLY EQUAL TO HER IN THAT THEY ARE ARABS, CHRISTIANS,
• 26:31 KNOWLEDGEABLE ON THE MIDDLE-EAST AND SO ON.
• 26:34 IT'S NOT A MATTER OF OPINION WHEN IT COMES TO THE HISTORY OR THE FACTS.
• 26:40 THERE IS SOME OPINION IN ANY INTERVIEW, BUT WE HAD THEM LOOK AT ALL OF WHAT SHE SAID AND COMMENT ACCORDINGLY.
• 26:49 YOU BE THE JUDGE. WE DID NOT SENSOR ANYTHING THAT SHE SAID.
• 26:55 WE'VE ONLY EDITED FOR TIME CONSIDERATIONS, NOT FOR CONTENT.
• 27:01 YOU'RE GETTING HER FULL TESTIMONY AND THEN THE REPLIES BY OUR EXPERTS.
• 27:06 SO JOIN US AGAIN NEXT WEEK. WE'LL CONTINUE THIS.
• 27:09 AND AS YOU DO SO, MORE THAN EVER,
• 27:12 SHA'ALU SHALOM YERUSHALAYIM, PRAY FOR THE PEACE OF JERUSALEM.