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Caption transcript for Jeremiah: “Jeremiah in Retrospect” (9/9)

• 00:01 David Hart: On today's program, we hear more from Dr. Jeffrey Seif and Dr. Michael Brown, as we look for modern
• 00:09 applications from the book of Jeremiah, coming up next on "Our Jewish Roots."
• 00:14 ♪♪♪
• 00:19 male announcer: In the 6th century BC,
• 00:22 one man stood alone against the pervading wickedness of God's
• 00:25 people in the land of Judah.
• 00:28 The prophet Jeremiah was chosen by the Lord to warn of pending
• 00:33 judgment that would come at the hands of the Babylonians.
• 00:37 Visions of an exile left him heartbroken and in tears.
• 00:42 But Jeremiah remained faithful to his calling and recorded a
• 00:46 message that would speak to generations yet to come.
• 00:51 Standing tall with faith in God, he understood better days were
• 00:56 coming, and there was "Hope Over the Horizon."
• 01:02 ♪♪♪
• 01:05 David: Thank you so much for joining us today.
• 01:07 I am David Hart.
• 01:08 Kirsten Hart: I'm Kirsten Hart.
• 01:09 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: And I am Jeffrey Seif.
• 01:11 David: And it's been such a great series all about Jeremiah.
• 01:13 Your teaching always amazing.
• 01:16 We love being at this desk with you all the time.
• 01:18 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: Well, you're kind.
• 01:20 David: Dr. Michael Brown, we really enjoyed him, too.
• 01:22 So, you guys have known each other for a while.
• 01:24 Tell us about your relationship with him.
• 01:26 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: Yeah, we had a sit-down,
• 01:28 and I was just glad to have him participating in the series,
• 01:31 but he and I worked for the same Bible college on different
• 01:37 campuses, and we have that professional association.
• 01:40 My first memory of him goes back to sitting down with him,
• 01:44 and he had a Hebrew Bible and wanted to fellowship
• 01:48 with me in the Bible.
• 01:49 Now, I mean, I don't hold a candle to him with the language.
• 01:54 And, you know, I can make my way with the language;
• 01:57 but, you know, I'm just minor league.
• 02:00 He's major league and an all-star at that, really.
• 02:02 He's really one of the best of the best,
• 02:05 and I've known him for decades, and I'm working with him now
• 02:10 beyond the television series.
• 02:12 Zondervan, a major publisher, Christian publisher,
• 02:17 and a Bible publisher, is doing a study Bible that he's the
• 02:20 General Editor of, and I'm working on three
• 02:24 books for that, so--
• 02:25 Kirsten: And we get--I like something extra.
• 02:28 I like a bonus.
• 02:29 This is our bonus program for Jeremiah,
• 02:32 especially interviews that you had with Dr. Brown.
• 02:35 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: Yeah, and he wrote a significant
• 02:37 commentary on Jeremiah.
• 02:38 I didn't know that when I pitched to him,
• 02:40 "Hey, Mike, do you want to come and help?"
• 02:43 "And, oh, by the way, yes."
• 02:44 And then bingo, I hit paydirt on the quick.
• 02:47 Kirsten: All right, that's coming up, isn't it?
• 02:48 David: It is. Kirsten: Like right now.
• 02:50 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: Yes, so without further ado,
• 02:53 off we go to Dr. Michael Brown.
• 02:55 ♪♪♪
• 02:58 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: Michael Brown,
• 03:00 I'm so thrilled to be able to sit down with you, my friend.
• 03:02 Dr. Michael Brown: Always great to be with you, Jeff.
• 03:04 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: It's been a number of years, hasn't it?
• 03:05 Dr. Michael Brown: It has been.
• 03:07 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: Speaking of years and going back years,
• 03:08 we're looking at Jeremiah.
• 03:09 You did a commentary on Jeremiah.
• 03:11 What led you to do that?
• 03:12 Dr. Michael Brown: Well, for years,
• 03:13 I had loved the prophetic burden of Jeremiah,
• 03:16 and I had related on a certain level 'til you carry
• 03:20 the pain of a burden.
• 03:21 You see something's wrong in the situation around you,
• 03:23 and your only outlet is really to the Lord.
• 03:26 So, when I was asked to contribute a commentary to an
• 03:30 Old Testament series, they were revising some older ones and
• 03:33 rewriting, and brand-new ones were coming in.
• 03:36 I put Jeremiah at the top of my list,
• 03:38 and the editor said to me, "I had Jeremiah at the
• 03:40 top of the list for you, as well.
• 03:42 So, I virtually got to live with the prophet for several years,
• 03:45 and it was extraordinary.
• 03:47 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: Well, you lived with him;
• 03:48 and in a certain sense you live like him,
• 03:49 at least in the sense you're very forthright,
• 03:51 and direct, and passionate.
• 03:53 So, I could see how you could relate to the character.
• 03:56 Dr. Michael Brown: Yeah, and any of us that have a prophetic
• 03:59 burden--not meaning that we're having visions and dreams about
• 04:02 the future or writing books of the Bible,
• 04:04 but we have that burden that something's
• 04:06 wrong, and it needs to change.
• 04:08 The message of repent is deep, deep in our hearts,
• 04:11 and that word occurs over and over and over in Jeremiah,
• 04:14 and it ties in with words of "Return, the exiles return."
• 04:17 You repent, you return.
• 04:19 When those things are real to you,
• 04:21 and when you have a burden for your nation,
• 04:23 it sometimes reduces you to tears.
• 04:25 And a burden for the Jewish people,
• 04:27 in ways you can relate to Jeremiah.
• 04:29 And all of us, as God's people, Jesus tells us that when we bear
• 04:33 reproach for the gospel, we're being treated the way the
• 04:36 prophets were being treated.
• 04:38 So, as followers of Yeshua, we swim against the tide.
• 04:41 We go against the grain.
• 04:42 In that sense, we can relate to Jeremiah.
• 04:45 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: Yeah, and in that sense--and believe me,
• 04:47 I don't want to give you a Hebrew lesson--for viewers that
• 04:49 are watching, they don't know you.
• 04:51 You know, for your Ph.D., 11 Semitic languages, correct?
• 04:55 Dr. Michael Brown: Yeah, a bunch,
• 04:56 dialects and different things.
• 04:57 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: So, I don't want to fake it with you.
• 04:59 My understanding is the word nevi,
• 05:00 etymologically, for prophet, comes from a word meaning
• 05:02 to bubble forth.
• 05:03 And I liken it in the sense of someone drinks 7-Up,
• 05:06 there's gas, there's something deep inside,
• 05:09 and it needs to come out.
• 05:10 You alighted upon that in Jeremiah's day.
• 05:13 Today, do you think a lot of God's people have stuff in them?
• 05:16 There's a word, there's a moment.
• 05:17 We live in times today much like Jeremiah, correct?
• 05:20 Dr. Michael Brown: So, what's really interesting in Jeremiah
• 05:23 is that in the 20th chapter, he comes to a breaking point.
• 05:26 Every so often, he'd come to a breaking point privately,
• 05:28 never publicly, never flinched publicly,
• 05:31 never backed down from a single word,
• 05:32 but sometimes like, "God, this is enough.
• 05:34 This is too much.
• 05:35 It's too costly for me to bring this Word.
• 05:38 Family turns to me, I get hit violently.
• 05:40 I'm just trying to obey you. Everybody hates me."
• 05:43 So, he says, "I decided," Jeremiah 20,
• 05:45 "I'm just gonna keep quiet.
• 05:47 I will not speak his Word anymore."
• 05:49 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: He said he can't live that way.
• 05:50 Dr. Michael Brown: Can't live like--he said,
• 05:51 "Your Word was like fire in my bones."
• 05:54 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: Now, and to that point,
• 05:55 he's noted as the "Weeping Prophet,"
• 05:57 very effusive, emotive.
• 05:59 We know more about him than other prophets 'cause there's a
• 06:02 lot of self-disclosure in the way he speaks, correct?
• 06:05 Dr. Michael Brown: Yes, so we have a lot of glimpses.
• 06:07 We know far more about the person of Jeremiah than
• 06:10 any other prophet.
• 06:11 And a lot of the book is first person.
• 06:13 Some of it's third person about him,
• 06:15 but a lot of it is first person.
• 06:17 And what would bring him to a breaking point,
• 06:19 also, was the hard words he had to bring.
• 06:21 For example, in Jeremiah 15, he's prophesying about the woman
• 06:24 of seven that's gonna go, the mother of seven that's gonna
• 06:27 die, and this one's gonna die.
• 06:28 And it's like, "I didn't ask for this, Lord.
• 06:30 I never pursued this. You pursued me."
• 06:35 And you know what God says to him?
• 06:37 He doesn't say, "Jeremiah, I understand."
• 06:39 He says, "If you repent, I'll use you."
• 06:41 He's like, "I don't want to be used."
• 06:42 But God knew deep down in Jeremiah's heart,
• 06:44 he really wanted to be.
• 06:46 So, the pain that he expresses towards God,
• 06:49 it shows us that as strong as he was publicly,
• 06:52 he was a very sensitive man.
• 06:54 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: Yes, he was.
• 06:55 Dr. Michael Brown: He wasn't one that just,
• 06:56 "I don't care.
• 06:58 I'm gonna bring these hard words."
• 06:59 It broke his heart, which is telling us it's costly to
• 07:03 carry the burden of the Lord.
• 07:04 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: You know, as a teacher,
• 07:06 I always want students, as a Bible professor,
• 07:08 just to try and look at a text in its context.
• 07:11 I'm really interested in the moment.
• 07:12 It's hard to resist the temptation to read Jeremiah
• 07:15 right into today; because truth be known,
• 07:17 a lot of people are burdened,
• 07:19 they're grieved, they're upset.
• 07:20 There's a word they want to speak.
• 07:22 It's harsh about culture, but they don't like it.
• 07:24 What do you think?
• 07:25 Dr. Michael Brown: So, Jeremiah tells us
• 07:27 we must have courage.
• 07:28 Jeremiah tells us we must obey.
• 07:30 Jeremiah tells us that we lose our personhood,
• 07:33 and value, and dignity when we compromise
• 07:36 for the sake of convenience.
• 07:38 It's what Jesus himself taught.
• 07:39 "If you save your life, you lose it."
• 07:42 You become a slave to the opinions of people.
• 07:44 You become a slave to the times and the seasons,
• 07:47 as opposed to being God's servant.
• 07:49 So, the words of Jeremiah continue through all eternity.
• 07:54 We read them, we study them as God's words.
• 07:56 What about the words of the false prophets?
• 07:58 What do we think about the ones who said,
• 07:59 [speaking in Hebrew]
• 08:01 All is well, all is well, peace, peace," when nothing is well,
• 08:04 when there is no peace.
• 08:05 Their names are despised.
• 08:07 Hananiah, the false prophet, who dies.
• 08:10 And Jeremiah even says, "The ones who prophesy peace and
• 08:13 safety, they're the unusual ones.
• 08:15 You know their words are true when they come to pass,
• 08:17 because all the other prophets have predicted judgment," why?
• 08:20 Because of the sin of the people.
• 08:22 So, if we think we can just coast by,
• 08:25 smiling, laughing, happy all the time,
• 08:28 we don't have the heart of God.
• 08:29 He does give us joy. He does give us peace.
• 08:31 He does give us intimacy; but, boy,
• 08:33 he wants us to carry a burden,
• 08:35 and that means sharing his heart.
• 08:36 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: Yes, and there's a lot of happy,
• 08:38 clappy, but we live in tough times,
• 08:39 and we need to be able to speak to,
• 08:41 for, and about it--not just to it, but through it.
• 08:44 Now, to your point earlier, it is true,
• 08:46 this weeping prophet, I mean, what makes the good news so good
• 08:50 is that the bad news is so bad.
• 08:51 I mean, he lived in tough times, but he saw over the horizon to
• 08:54 better days coming, didn't he?
• 08:55 Dr. Michael Brown: Yeah, so much of his book,
• 08:57 most of his book is doom, judgment, gloom,
• 09:00 but then there always are these words of encouragement.
• 09:03 And then chapters 30 through 33 have been called
• 09:06 "The Book of Consolation" because it's good news after
• 09:09 good news, after good news being presented,
• 09:12 and Jeremiah has four verses, Jeremiah 31,
• 09:16 verses 31 to 34 in our English Bibles that prophesy this new
• 09:20 covenant that God will make with the house of Israel and Judah.
• 09:23 And Yeshua, at the last supper, says,
• 09:24 "This is what I'm implementing through my death,
• 09:27 through my blood."
• 09:28 And then this is the longest single passage quoted
• 09:31 in the New Testament.
• 09:32 It's quoted in its entirety in the book of Hebrews.
• 09:35 So, the one that brings the new covenant prophecy that Yeshua
• 09:39 inaugurates with his death and resurrection
• 09:42 is the weeping prophet.
• 09:44 "Those who sow with tears reap with joy."
• 09:47 And to the degree that we plant our seeds with tears of prayer
• 09:51 and brokenness in intercession is to the degree that we will
• 09:54 reap with great joy and satisfaction.
• 09:59 Kirsten: Dr. Brown mentioned the burden Jeremiah had of the
• 10:05 words that were in his belly, that had the fire that he had to
• 10:10 get out.
• 10:11 And I know you've taught the Bible for many years.
• 10:14 You've brought the word many years on our program.
• 10:18 Throughout all that time, is there something,
• 10:21 a fire in your belly, yes, that you feel you have to get out?
• 10:25 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: Yes, but I'm a little different
• 10:26 than Dr. Brown in that regard.
• 10:28 He started a school called Fire School of Ministry.
• 10:31 He is just passionate on steroids,
• 10:34 and he's an evangelist that so happened to pick up a Ph.D.
• 10:38 that includes 11 different languages.
• 10:40 For me, the principal burden, as a Bible teacher is to be a
• 10:45 Jewish studies professor.
• 10:46 For me, I'm very much interested in looking at the Good News
• 10:50 through the eyes of the Jews.
• 10:51 And I'm not saying that 'cause I'm on the television set and a
• 10:54 program that tells that kind of story,
• 10:56 but that's what I've been all about in the classroom
• 10:58 as a teacher.
• 11:00 Kirsten: That's that fire in your belly
• 11:01 that you just have to get out.
• 11:03 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: I want to help Jewish people come to know
• 11:04 Jesus, and I want to help Jesus people come to know Jews.
• 11:08 That burns.
• 11:09 Kirsten: Yes, and I love that there's something inside that
• 11:11 has to come out.
• 11:13 David: Yes, right now let's go back to our interview.
• 11:16 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: So, you're a guy,
• 11:17 you had the opportunity to write on a number of things,
• 11:20 and you have written on a number of things on your websites there
• 11:23 on the air, and people can learn about "Ask Dr. Michael Brown,"
• 11:27 and I'm asking Dr. Michael Brown.
• 11:30 You stepped into Jeremiah.
• 11:31 You could relate to him personally,
• 11:33 correct, as a human being, the passion,
• 11:35 the fire of God, the difficulties?
• 11:37 Dr. Michael Brown: Yeah, and reading Jeremiah 23,
• 11:40 beginning in verse 9, it's the oracle to the false prophets.
• 11:43 It just says,
• 11:44 [speaking in Hebrew]
• 11:46 to the prophets, but it means to the false prophets,
• 11:47 and Jeremiah is staggered.
• 11:49 He's staggering around like a drunken man,
• 11:52 because he's so overwhelmed by the holy words of God,
• 11:55 when he sees what the false prophets are doing and how they
• 11:58 are destroying the nation.
• 12:00 And I remember reading that decades ago in Hebrew on my
• 12:03 knees, and literally being staggered by the words,
• 12:06 being completely overcome by the burden of the Lord.
• 12:10 So, there was something. Now, I'm not a Jeremiah.
• 12:12 I'm not a prophet like he was, but there's something that I've
• 12:15 identified with.
• 12:16 And then sometimes even if you have friends,
• 12:19 family around you,
• 12:20 you feel like you're the only one with a message.
• 12:22 You know you're not.
• 12:23 You know God has a family and burden and body out there,
• 12:26 but sometimes the burden's so intense,
• 12:28 it feels like no one else sees it,
• 12:29 no one else feels it, and that sensitivity where God speaks,
• 12:34 Jeremiah speaks.
• 12:35 It goes back and forth, and it's all in the first person.
• 12:38 As my wife Nancy said when I was writing the commentary,
• 12:40 talking about it, she said, "Sometimes you can't tell where
• 12:43 God ends and the prophet begins and vice versa."
• 12:46 That's how it is with us in the Lord,
• 12:47 that we're one with him.
• 12:49 We identify with him.
• 12:50 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: You know, it seems, for me, and, you know,
• 12:54 opting to jump in and throw my hat in the ring to do
• 12:56 the Jeremiah story for a television program--
• 12:59 and by the way, thank you for participating with me when we
• 13:01 went through those little vignettes,
• 13:03 and we went through the series earlier.
• 13:04 This is just the wrap on it.
• 13:06 But part of the genesis for me is he seemed like so much a man
• 13:10 for our times, and the times' shifting political currents.
• 13:14 Where are you gonna stand? Standing up for God's Word.
• 13:18 You know, kind of staving off the political correctness to
• 13:21 keep your integrity in a spiritual sense.
• 13:24 It seem so much the kind of pressures that we're all feeling
• 13:27 today, those of us that have the Lord in us,
• 13:29 that want the Lord to shine through us.
• 13:31 Dr. Michael Brown: He lived in a very real
• 13:32 spiritual cancel culture.
• 13:34 Didn't have the same media issues then,
• 13:36 but people were trying to silence him.
• 13:38 They did not like what he had to say.
• 13:41 Out of the gate, when God called him,
• 13:44 he'll well be a, you know, teenager when he's called.
• 13:46 He'll be 15, 16 years old. We don't know the exact age.
• 13:48 You may have had a different figure on it.
• 13:50 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: I never put a figure on it.
• 13:52 Dr. Michael Brown: Yeah, he's just a young guy.
• 13:53 He's a na'ar in Hebrew.
• 13:54 And he said, "I don't even know how to speak."
• 13:56 And you've got the senior prophets out there.
• 13:58 You've got the wise men.
• 13:59 You've got the priests.
• 14:01 You've got the elders, and now he's gonna prophesy
• 14:05 contrary to what they're all saying.
• 14:06 They're all gonna be against--
• 14:07 who in the world do you think you are?
• 14:09 But God put his words in his mouth.
• 14:12 And even his own family turned against him.
• 14:14 That's another breaking point, end of Jeremiah 11,
• 14:17 and that's when he complains to God early in Jeremiah 12.
• 14:20 We soften it in our translations,
• 14:21 but he's basically saying, "I don't like the way
• 14:23 you run your universe, God.
• 14:24 I'm gonna bring charges against you."
• 14:26 And God's response to him is, "Hey,
• 14:28 Jeremiah, you're getting worn out running with the footmen.
• 14:30 What are you gonna do with the horsemen?
• 14:32 You can't take it in your home city of Anathoth,
• 14:34 a little, small town.
• 14:35 What are you gonna do in Jerusalem?"
• 14:37 And then God comforts him and encourages him.
• 14:39 But he's up against, "Who are you to speak?"
• 14:43 That's where we find ourselves today.
• 14:45 "Just be quiet and everything will be fine.
• 14:48 Just conform to the norm and bow to the gods of this age,
• 14:52 and life will go well for you."
• 14:54 That's the lie of Satan that every generation hears.
• 14:58 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: A lot of bad stuff worked its way into
• 15:00 Judean culture, idol worship being one.
• 15:02 You know, some of these kings hopped in bed with the devil,
• 15:05 and Jeremiah's world is reaping what they sowed, correct?
• 15:09 Dr. Michael Brown: Yeah, idolatry was really the root,
• 15:11 turning away from the true God and worshiping false gods,
• 15:14 and everything else flowed out of that sexual immorality,
• 15:16 injustice, and child sacrifice.
• 15:18 It all flowed out of idolatry.
• 15:20 We said, "We're not having that today.
• 15:21 We're not bowing down to gods of wood and stone."
• 15:25 Well, we have every kind of idol,
• 15:27 everything else that we give our attention to,
• 15:29 whether it's our addiction to sports,
• 15:32 whether it's our obsession with entertainment,
• 15:35 whether it's looking to people, whether it's--Paul says that
• 15:38 greed is idolatry.
• 15:40 So, idolatry is still here in so many different forms.
• 15:43 Anything that takes the worship, and attention,
• 15:46 and adoration, and energy that should be given over to God and
• 15:50 gives it over to something else, that's idolatry.
• 15:53 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: Well, if I understand you correctly,
• 15:54 you're saying, "Okay, look, you watch your football game;
• 15:58 but if it's happening during church, record it,
• 16:00 go to church, and watch it later.
• 16:01 Don't put it first."
• 16:03 Dr. Michael Brown: Or how about this?
• 16:04 Be more grieved over the fact that your neighbor is lost and
• 16:09 that your grandson is a drug addict,
• 16:12 be more grieved over
• 16:13 that than the fact that your team lost yesterday.
• 16:16 If you can spend hours and hours and hours every single day
• 16:20 playing video games and don't read your Bible in a week,
• 16:23 something is out of order.
• 16:24 Something needs to shift.
• 16:26 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: And you've been gracious.
• 16:27 It's not just video games.
• 16:29 If you look at the hours people spend with their little cell
• 16:31 phones, but don't have time to read a scripture, it really is--
• 16:34 Dr. Michael Brown: Exactly, I have time to respond to every
• 16:36 text, but I don't have time to pray or memorize
• 16:39 a scripture verse.
• 16:40 Something's out of order. Idolatry can be subtle.
• 16:43 Idolatry can be overt.
• 16:44 Either way, what's capturing our hearts?
• 16:47 That's the God we worship.
• 16:49 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: Well, the theologian Michael Brown says
• 16:50 answer your texts, but make sure you respond
• 16:53 to biblical text, amen?
• 16:54 Dr. Michael Brown: I love it.
• 16:57 Kirsten: I trust that you are all enjoying this extra bonus
• 17:01 program, this interview with Dr. Michael Brown,
• 17:04 as much as we are.
• 17:05 David: We love it, yes.
• 17:06 Kirsten: He is so good. He's very insightful.
• 17:08 And the way we bring it to you is through faithful donations
• 17:12 of all our viewers.
• 17:13 So, in Hebrew they say, "Todah," or "Todah rabah,"
• 17:17 which means "Thank you very much."
• 17:18 You are making all of this possible.
• 17:21 David: Stay with us, we'll be right back.
• 17:24 Female announcer: For many, a trip to the Holy Land is the
• 17:27 dream of a lifetime.
• 17:29 Where else can you go see the scriptures come alive,
• 17:32 as you visit the sites where so many biblical events happened.
• 17:38 We invite you to come on a Zola tour in the spring or the fall,
• 17:42 as we explore Israel and Petra.
• 17:44 Reserve your dream of a lifetime.
• 17:47 Contact us for more information.
• 17:50 ♪♪♪
• 17:55 David: We've enjoyed bringing you this last series
• 17:57 all about Jeremiah.
• 17:59 If you've missed any of the programs,
• 18:00 there's a great way that you can go back and find
• 18:03 these programs online.
• 18:05 Kirsten: Right, we are literally all over social media.
• 18:08 Do @.
• 18:10 It's a fancy symbol.
• 18:11 It's probably right below us right now.
• 18:13 @OurJewishRoots.
• 18:15 You can go on our ministry website,
• 18:17 levitt.com or levitt.tv.
• 18:19 I know that's a lot of information.
• 18:21 But, gosh, they can watch this whole series,
• 18:24 extra interviews.
• 18:25 We have some special things that we just put on social media just
• 18:29 for you.
• 18:31 David: Right now, let's go back to our interview.
• 18:34 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: I always try and take pains to look at
• 18:36 the nuances in the literature that give the background to it.
• 18:39 And it's a precarious, changing world.
• 18:42 The climate is very tempestuous in Jeremiah's day,
• 18:46 much like our own, correct?
• 18:48 Dr. Michael Brown: Yeah, everything was up for grabs.
• 18:50 It was about 100 years earlier that Assyria crushed the
• 18:53 northern tribes of Israel and almost took out Judah.
• 18:57 God miraculously intervened for Hezekiah.
• 19:00 It's not all that long later--basically,
• 19:03 that happens in 722 BC, and Jeremiah begins
• 19:06 to prophesy in 627 BC.
• 19:09 So, it's not even 100 years, and now there's the new threat from
• 19:12 Babylon, and Jeremiah is told, out of the gate,
• 19:15 "Your nation's going down."
• 19:17 There's this sense today that if we don't have great revival in
• 19:21 America, our nation may implode from within,
• 19:24 or we may fall to people from another--there's this sense of
• 19:27 urgency, a life and death moment,
• 19:29 and we're really in it.
• 19:31 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: Let's unpack that a little,
• 19:32 because people are living with a fear--and a lot of fear is
• 19:36 unreasonable, but this isn't an unreasonable fear.
• 19:40 People are thinking, "Goodness, our nation is dissipating,
• 19:44 it's evaporating, its moral fabric is disintegrating,
• 19:48 and people fear for that.
• 19:50 Jeremiah did much the same, didn't he?
• 19:52 Dr. Michael Brown: Yeah, and one of the great issues of our
• 19:53 day is abortion.
• 19:55 One of the great issues of Jeremiah's day is the
• 19:58 slaughtering of babies, sacrificing them to Molech.
• 20:01 You read about it in Jeremiah 7 and Jeremiah 19.
• 20:05 And that one thing, which happened a lot under the
• 20:09 leadership of Manasseh--
• 20:11 55 years, king of Judah.
• 20:13 Billy Graham once called him the most wicked man that ever lived,
• 20:16 and certainly was a terrible sinner that found repentance at
• 20:20 the end of his life, but his sins were so great that in
• 20:23 Jeremiah 15 God says, "Even though I forgave him,
• 20:26 I can't forgive the nation for all the bloodshed."
• 20:29 It is to the sins that were committed under him were such,
• 20:32 the shedding of innocent blood, this is now for living babies
• 20:36 that were burned alive and offered to Molech.
• 20:41 God said, "That sin alone, I'm going to destroy the nation."
• 20:45 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: But is there any good news
• 20:46 from ancient Jews?
• 20:47 I mean, Jeremiah lived in a world--again,
• 20:50 different circumstances,
• 20:52 but not unlike it at the emotional level.
• 20:54 His world was in a vice, but he had advice for the world,
• 20:59 didn't he?
• 21:00 Dr. Michael Brown: Yeah, the first reality is for every one
• 21:02 of us, we can take refuge in God.
• 21:05 For every one of us, personally, we can have such a rock-solid
• 21:08 relationship with him.
• 21:10 scripture says the righteous will not be shaken.
• 21:12 We don't have to be shaken by what's happening around us.
• 21:15 Yeshua says that "When all these things are happening,
• 21:18 and it's getting really bad, even worse than now,
• 21:21 and you know that my return is near,
• 21:23 people are having heart attacks for fear of what's coming,
• 21:26 you should be rejoicing, because I'm coming back."
• 21:30 That's the reality.
• 21:31 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: Let me pivot and ask you about just not
• 21:33 being shaken.
• 21:35 You had mentioned earlier in the interview,
• 21:38 in the conversation about how, you know,
• 21:40 Jeremiah had experienced trouble with his own family.
• 21:43 Some of us, you know, we raise kids,
• 21:45 and we're shaken to the core because of the abandonment,
• 21:49 the disrespect, the disintegration of the family.
• 21:53 I suspect people that are watching--I know in my age
• 21:56 bracket, when I talk to parents and grandparents,
• 22:00 they're upset because of the irreverence and disrespect.
• 22:03 How can we not be shaken in a world where we think that's what
• 22:06 we love is being--is shaking us?
• 22:09 Dr. Michael Brown: It does shake us, initially, just as Jeremiah
• 22:12 was shaken, and it is shocking to see somehow things
• 22:16 have just turned upside down.
• 22:18 And what used to be normal is abnormal,
• 22:20 and what used to be expected is now exceptional,
• 22:23 and we're seeing things we've never seen before,
• 22:26 dealing with things we've never had to deal with before.
• 22:28 But the lesson from Jeremiah is you do get shaken,
• 22:31 which drives you deeper in God.
• 22:33 It drives you to this place of desperation.
• 22:36 Because yesterday's methods aren't cutting it.
• 22:39 We have to find something new in God,
• 22:41 and that's why Jeremiah made it to the end.
• 22:44 That's why he never cracked. That's why he never backslid.
• 22:46 That's why he never did anything that they could ever point their
• 22:49 finger at and find him guilty.
• 22:51 God sustained him.
• 22:52 The same God who sustained Jeremiah,
• 22:55 if we run to him and put all our trust in him,
• 22:58 and our fear, and our pain, and our anxiety,
• 23:01 and really throw ourselves on him like Jeremiah did,
• 23:04 we will find the same comfort, hope,
• 23:07 strength to endure, and we will not be shaken.
• 23:09 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: You know, I think you're right.
• 23:10 There's this old verses that--old,
• 23:13 I mean all verses are old, but they used to be represented to
• 23:17 audience more so, you know.
• 23:18 "I know that my Redeemer lives,
• 23:20 and at last he will stand upon the earth."
• 23:22 Even if you don't have the answer,
• 23:24 I know God is the answer.
• 23:25 And, you know, I'm just gonna press through the turbulence of
• 23:28 trying times and trust in him.
• 23:30 Jeremiah certainly had to do that,
• 23:32 and he needed to do it in his day.
• 23:34 We've gotta do it in ours, correct?
• 23:35 Dr. Michael Brown: Yeah, if Jeremiah were speaking to us,
• 23:38 as believers, as those who really want to follow him,
• 23:41 I believe he would look at us and say,
• 23:43 "God is faithful, God is true.
• 23:46 Every word he promised will come to pass.
• 23:49 You'll go through dark times; but trust me,
• 23:51 the light will prevail."
• 23:53 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: Amen.
• 23:55 Kirsten: That is a fantastic way to wrap up
• 23:58 our whole series on Jeremiah.
• 24:01 I don't know why, you guys, I always get a little sad at the
• 24:04 end of another series.
• 24:06 It's like we lived with these people,
• 24:08 we walked with Jeremiah, and now it's kind of done, sad.
• 24:12 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: You know, to that point--and by the way,
• 24:14 it's not scripted about living with these people.
• 24:17 I know, for me, before I ever do a series,
• 24:21 I really try and climb into their world.
• 24:23 I want to be there, I want to feel it.
• 24:25 Of course, it's easier to do it when you're actually going to
• 24:26 the place, to Israel, but I want to climb in their heads and hear
• 24:31 their words and feel their thoughts and let what emerges,
• 24:35 emerge out of that.
• 24:37 Kirsten: You picked--and we've talked about why you
• 24:40 might've picked Jeremiah--out of the whole Bible,
• 24:44 why was that the person that you picked out and said,
• 24:47 "It's time for his story to be told on our program."
• 24:49 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: Because when my producer,
• 24:50 when our producer, Ken Berg, said,
• 24:52 "Let's do Isaiah," I said, "We already did it.
• 24:54 Let's do Jeremiah."
• 24:56 I mean, any pick of the Bible is good.
• 25:00 It's good, but I just really thought that it's a message for
• 25:05 the moment, to tell you the truth.
• 25:08 And I'm so vexed.
• 25:10 Jeremiah was vexed when he considered the state of affairs
• 25:14 in his own culture.
• 25:16 And, personally, I'm distressed when I look at the news.
• 25:21 You know, it really bothers me deeply.
• 25:24 My wife, Barry, doesn't want to look at it.
• 25:26 I look at it and want to throw up.
• 25:28 Jeremiah had those same thoughts.
• 25:31 David: There was a lot of darkness back in that day that
• 25:33 we've seen, this whole series.
• 25:35 There's a lot of darkness in our world today,
• 25:38 but we're called to be his light and hope for the world.
• 25:41 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: Yes.
• 25:42 You've been doing it your whole life in ministry,
• 25:45 as a minster of music, correct?
• 25:47 David: Easy to get discouraged,
• 25:48 but he's called all of us to be his light.
• 25:51 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: I mean, you know people come to church,
• 25:53 and they carry the burdens, and you want to connect to them and
• 25:57 take them to somewhere else, you know.
• 26:00 Kirsten: I was gonna say, jumping on that,
• 26:01 that's what you do.
• 26:03 We've talked about Jeremiah's fire in his belly,
• 26:06 what he had to get out, and I think--and I'm just speaking as
• 26:09 your wife, right--I'm your wife--that you have such a
• 26:12 burning passion for people to worship at all ages,
• 26:16 and we all have a different fire and words that the Lord puts in
• 26:21 us that we have to get out.
• 26:22 I think that's part of our calling
• 26:24 and our mission on this earth.
• 26:26 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: Right, and it manifests differently,
• 26:27 because we have different personalities,
• 26:29 but that's not the point.
• 26:30 Michael Brown is a frustrated evangelist that so
• 26:34 happened to get a Ph.D.
• 26:35 You know, he has all that passion,
• 26:37 and it manifests in the way that he communicates,
• 26:40 you know.
• 26:41 And David--I mean, we all have different personalities.
• 26:44 I'm a little more intense, and I think that you're more of a
• 26:47 staid, respectable individual, you know,
• 26:50 but your passion propelled you into the Lord's work,
• 26:54 and you can light up a fire when you engage a community and lift
• 26:59 them up in song.
• 27:00 David: I try. Jeremiah wept a lot.
• 27:03 I feel like I do that once in a while when I see people that
• 27:07 aren't engaging in that hope.
• 27:09 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: You really, I mean, you see it
• 27:10 and feel it there, and you're trying to
• 27:13 take them to another place.
• 27:14 You want them to see and experience something.
• 27:16 David: We are the light of the world.
• 27:18 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: Yes, we are.
• 27:19 And you, Jeremiah, Michael Brown,
• 27:23 me, we, we're all in the same boat.
• 27:25 Let's lift him up.
• 27:27 Kirsten: And I'm jumping in, because I want to say thank you
• 27:30 for your insight, your wisdom to bring Jeremiah's
• 27:33 word to "Our Jewish Roots."
• 27:35 We're thankful for you.
• 27:36 Dr. Jeffrey Seif: Well, you're kind to do it.
• 27:37 And I wouldn't be bringing it to you if you didn't enable
• 27:40 us, and thank you so much.
• 27:41 And y'all come back now, here? We'll see you next week.
• 27:44 Until then, sha'alu shalom Yerushalayim.
• 27:47 Kirsten: Pray for the peace of Jerusalem.
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